Prometheus 2: Apparently it's happening

[Ovation]

I don't know, the Alien(s)-style xenomorph bas-relief on the temple wall, the bioweapon jars arranged in a similar manner to the xenomorph eggs, the geologist gradually changing into a xenomorph, the giant facehugger, and the modified xenomorph baby at the end are an odd way of showing that he wanted nothing to do with them at all.

Well, that's why Scott kept saying it wasn't an Alien prequel or sequel, it just "shared some of its DNA."

I would have been fine with either a true prequel to Alien that focused more on the Xenomorphs or a story that focused entirely on the Engineers, but what we got was sort of a hybrid of those that seemingly couldn't decide what it wanted to be, and so it ended up giving short shrift to both aspects of the story and was unsatisfying as a result (IMO).

I would have much preferred some greater background be given to the society and objectives of the Engineers rather than the utterly ridiculous action sequences we got toward the end. Or to Tweedledum and Tweedledee meandering through the alien ship that the world's most incompetent geologist mapped himself, while the world's worst biologist pets the hostile space cobra with inevitable results.

It all boils down to how you interpret it. The way I read the film, these people thought they were leaders in their fields, but the only one who actually even remotely was was Shaw. Everyone else was an incompetent hobo hauled off the street by Weyland, because he didn't give a shit about the mission, he just wanted immortality. "Pfft, as long as they get me there, David can do the rest."

I know they can (and most likely will) greatly expand on the story of the Engineers in the sequel, and I look forward to it, but when you sell the film as telling their story and then don't adequately deliver on that premise; nor do you effectively set up the events in Alien; nor do you make a well-constructed and self-contained story that stands on its own merits, it's more than just disappointment at the lack of more xenomorphs that's the problem.

I guess it boils down to what you're looking to get out of the film. It is such an unsettling film. I'm a huge fan of Ridley Scott but I don't think he's ever done anything of this magnitude. The attention to detail, as seen in Alien, and the relentlessness of the themes, as seen in Blade Runner, are there. I don't think Prometheus beats either of those films as Scott's "best," but it's definitely one of his smartest films.

Think of how you approached love, relationships, when you were young. You went all-in with this naive, idealistic sensibility, and then you get in over your head, and you wonder to yourself, "What the HELL have I done?" You try to do your best to carry on, soldier forward, and find some meaning in everything ... and, nope. Nothing.

Then you meet "God," your creator, the being responsible for your existence, and you ask God why everything is so incredibly messed up. And God ... gives you no answers, shows nothing but pure hatred and then sets out to express that hate upon your entire race and it's incumbent upon you to prevent that disaster.

Fuck, now I need to go watch it again tonight.

Edit: Time to start talking titles. Prometheus and Prometheur? Prometheus 2: Genetic Boogaloo? 2Pro 2Metheus?

Edit 2: To further clarify, when Ridley Scott goes sci-fi, his films aren't necessarily about telling a compelling story. Blade Runner is boring as hell until you look at the design, the art direction, and the themes, and you realize that it isn't a boring cop movie with pretty pictures, because there's so much going on beneath the surface -- the subtext is ridiculously rich. Even in Alien, too, because that film's about a gigantic penis monster raping the shit out of a crew of ineffective fools and only the woman can repel it.

Well, this spares me a write-up of why I really like this film. Looking forward to a sequel if Scott is directing.

 

[Cato]

I found the mystery of the Engineers to be absolutely fascinating, and much more interesting than another Xenomorph jumping out of the air ducts, and I would absolutely love to see Shaw and David make their way to the Engineer Homeworld and see what's there, and why the Engineers changed their minds about humanity.

I agree, I liked Prometheus and thought it was great. I liked the first half of the movie with the exploration/ mystery which was very much like the first Alien movie. The second part with Shaw doing surgery and the whole monster movie element. If I had to criticize it, I'd say that the changes that Lindeloff made were unnecessary. I'm glad he won't be back and if I had to guess, I'd say they will deal with the exploration portion more and less focus on the monster movie aspect.

 

[Reverend]

Like a lot of people I think, I was disappointed the first time around, but on a second viewing I actually started to like it. The idiot scientists make sense once you realise that they're only there as disposible canaries to verify the find. David was essentially carrying on his actual mission while they were busy arseing around.

It could definitely have done with just a little more character development though (which I gather was originally there, but cut for pacing.) Normally with a Ridley Scott film I like to wait for the DC since he's usually pretty ruthless in his theatrical cuts and lavish on DVD, but in this instance I think he's said he has no intention on doing any extended version, which is a shame really.

Small aside, but one thing I'm still not 100% clear on, but was Theron's character Weyland's biological daughter, or an earlier (Tyrell?) android prototype? It just seemed like her interactions with David gave me a jealous sibling vibe, but that could apply to either scenario.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

The inexcusably stupid behavior of the characters caused me to bail on the first one before anything interesting happened, assuming it ever did, but I can hardly care whether anything interesting did in fact happen since I was hating the film so much. I'm happy I didn't pay money to see it, so I'll be passing on the sequel.

 

[RAMA]

Good, I think there are some answers out there for tje story.

 

[Stoo]

I rated Prometheus unsuccessful but intriguing. I wish the "meet your maker" theme had amounted so something more. I'm not so fussed over it directly tying into Alien - I just assumed the Xenomorphs were somehow a result of Engineer biotech and that black goopy stuff. I'd definitely like to see a sequel.

 

[MacLeod]

It's also hardly surprising we are getting a follow-up given that it made over US$400m at the box office.

 

[DarthTom]

It's also hardly surprising we are getting a follow-up given that it made over US$400m at the box office.

I know some people may abhor this comparison but in the sci-fi world, Scott to some degree has the same problem Lucas had in terms of trying to measure-up with a former masterpiece. Star Wars and then Return of the Jedi were Lucas' masterpieces followed by fans circling the wagons with the prequels.

Scott like Lucas is having trouble living up to his own masterpieces - Blade Runner and Aliens.

 

[ManOnTheWave]

I don't think it was ever a question as to whether or not it would get a sequel. I think the questions were when, who'd write, and will Scott direct? His plate seemed to fill up right after Prometheus' release.

As for Prometheus, people who did not like it can gripe all they want, but it's the first film to do anything remotely interesting with this material since Aliens.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

As for Prometheus, people who did not like it can gripe all they want, but it's the first film to do anything remotely interesting with this material since Aliens.

That's damning it with faint praise.

 

[Reverend]

I rated Prometheus unsuccessful but intriguing. I wish the "meet your maker" theme had amounted so something more. I'm not so fussed over it directly tying into Alien - I just assumed the Xenomorphs were somehow a result of Engineer biotech and that black goopy stuff. I'd definitely like to see a sequel.

Well they're certainly a product of Engineer bio-technology, just perhaps not the goo specifically. Indeed, going by how much more virulent, fast acting and adaptable that stuff is compared to xenomorphs spores, I'd say it's a much more advanced iteration. Or at least designed for a different application. Maybe the xenos were designed for warfare with another race, or others of their own kind while the goo is more of a gardening tool.

I do agree though, the "meet your maker" stuff wasn't really addressed properly. From what I gather though it was a conscious choice in the editing stage. The conversation between David, the Engineer and Weyland was a little more involved, giving some measure of context to it's violent reaction.

The cut dialogue also gives a more blatant hint at where a possible sequel may be headed. Specifically that the name for their homeworld roughly translates as: -

Spoiler: cut dialogue

Paradise.

 

[MacLeod]

It's also hardly surprising we are getting a follow-up given that it made over US$400m at the box office.

I know some people may abhor this comparison but in the sci-fi world, Scott to some degree has the same problem Lucas had in terms of trying to measure-up with a former masterpiece. Star Wars and then Return of the Jedi were Lucas' masterpieces followed by fans circling the wagons with the prequels.

Scott like Lucas is having trouble living up to his own masterpieces - Blade Runner and Aliens.

True, films are often compared to previous films by the director/entries in the same film franchise etc...

And as you say expectations or hype can have a negative impact on peoples perception of a film. Maybe not always true but if you go into a film expecting it to bad and it's bad you aren't disappointed but you can be surpsied. Conversely if you go into a film expecting it be great you stand a good chance of being disappointed.

I try and avoid reading reviews about films before I see them. I rarely go to the cinema these days, I decide what I want to see at the cinema and go and see them

 

[DarthTom]

And as you say expectations or hype can have a negative impact on peoples perception of a film. Maybe not always true but if you go into a film expecting it to bad and it's bad you aren't disappointed but you can be surpsied. Conversely if you go into a film expecting it be great you stand a good chance of being disappointed.

To an even greater degree I think James Cameron even more so than Scott is going to do something utterly amazing with the sequel to Avatar or it will fall face down. The 3-d sthick now we saw in Avatar as groundbreaking then will get a yawn by audiences today if he expects the effects alone to drive the movie and attendance. Avatar IMO had as many if not more plot holes and problems than Prometheus did - if the plot tries to stand by itself.

In any case, I'm with the minority in this thread - I like Prometheus warts and all.

 

[davejames]

I have to admit it took me a second viewing to realize just how bad the story for Prometheus was.

The first time I was so distracted by the absolutely gorgeous design and direction, and how close Scott came to recapturing the moody tone of the original, that I couldn't really see anything else.

If the sequel can come up with a much better story to go with Scott's visuals, I think it could actually be worthwhile.

 

[-Brett-]

Prometheus 2 seems a little premature, given that they never finished Prometheus 1.

Prometheus 1.5 maybe?

 

[bigdaddy]

Prometheus 2 seems a little premature, given that they never finished Prometheus 1.

Prometheus 1.5 maybe?

Perfectly said. The movie isn't all bad, because it's not all there.

 

[Jax]

Prometheus tried too hard to disconnect from Alien for no good reason it should of gone down a more pure path of being a sequel though the Engineers do interest me greatly.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

Hey, looks like I'm gonna save some money. Pass. I can't imagine a sequel to a shitty movie will be any better than the original.

What Zoom said.

Just when I thought the Star Wars prequels and Enterprise were pointless, creatively-challenged nightmares...

 

[Reverend]

Prometheus tried too hard to disconnect from Alien for no good reason it should of gone down a more pure path of being a sequel though the Engineers do interest me greatly.

I disagree that keeping it as a direct Alien prequel would have automatically made it "better", though I do agree that being somewhere in-between a prequel and it's own story. If anything I think it would have been better with *fewer* direct connections to Alien.

Indeed it's no secret that the film was originally written as a direct prequel and the artefacts of that early draft are plain to see. The moon was originally supposed to be LV-426, the ship that crashed at the end was originally the same ship they find in Alien, the Engineer that got chest bursted (is that even a word?) was supposed to be the "The Space Jockey" etc. etc.

After they changed it to be a different planet and an unrelated incident those remnants only served to cause confusion.

And as you say expectations or hype can have a negative impact on peoples perception of a film. Maybe not always true but if you go into a film expecting it to bad and it's bad you aren't disappointed but you can be surpsied. Conversely if you go into a film expecting it be great you stand a good chance of being disappointed.

To an even greater degree I think James Cameron even more so than Scott is going to do something utterly amazing with the sequel to Avatar or it will fall face down. The 3-d sthick now we saw in Avatar as groundbreaking then will get a yawn by audiences today if he expects the effects alone to drive the movie and attendance. Avatar IMO had as many if not more plot holes and problems than Prometheus did - if the plot tries to stand by itself.

Apples and oranges IMO. Avatar was a much simpler story that got by on having (mostly) well acted, three dimensional characters and some utterly jaw dropping VFX. With all that a few logical loopholes are easy to gloss over since it's more of a popcorn movie.

Prometheus on the other hand seems to want to be deeply profound and nuanced. Don't get me wrong there's something there but it's mired by a convoluted plot and a bunch of colourful yet two dimensional characters. With all that, the plot holes just seem all the more gaping.

As I said though, most of it appears to have been caused in the editing phase where Scott was supposedly concerned about the film's pacing and so sacrificed several character scenes and some rather crucial exposition in favour of keeping the action moving along.

 

[BigJake]

Avatar IMO had as many if not more plot holes and problems than Prometheus did - if the plot tries to stand by itself.

Like what?