• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Question for Americans

Data Holmes said:
Locutus of Bored said:
Data Holmes said:
It's estimated that a side effect of ObamaCare will be the loss of anywhere from 30% to 60% of private pratice GP offices. While most political types in favor of it either dismiss/ignore the forcast, and those opposed to it use it as fuel to attack the new law saying it will not only cause many pratices to close, doctors to retire, and overload the hospital networks.
Click to expand...

Please provide your source(s) from now on so people can verify or rebut that information.
Click to expand...

Outside of personal sources, which I will admit is NJ/NYC area focused (my mother works in both a private pratice that is being forced to merge with several other pratices, cut staff, and has informed the staff staying that there will be no raises or bonuses for the foreseeable future in order to survive, as well as at a hospital which has not only merged into a local hospital group, but is also now a part of the Allspire Health Partners monster... Several family friends are also in the medical field in the area) it has been showing in many doctor surveys over several years now.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/HEALTH/11/17/primary.care.doctors.study/index.html

http://www.nejmcareercenter.org/minisites/rpt/1-in-3-physicians-plans-to-quit-within-10-years/

http://www.forbes.com/sites/marcsie...care-foretells-mass-exodus-from-patient-care/

http://www.californiahealthline.org...uitting-medicare-is-obamacare-really-to-blame

http://www.californiahealthline.org...uitting-medicare-is-obamacare-really-to-blame
Click to expand...

Let's consider your sources in respective order, and what bearing they have on your claim:
Claim of Data Holmes said:
It's estimated that a side effect of ObamaCare [PPACA] will be the loss of anywhere from 30% to 60% of private pratice [sic] GP offices.
Click to expand...

Source #1: This article is dated November 18, 2008, which was about two months before President Obama was sworn in and well over a year before the PPACA was signed into law. Since it therefore has no bearing on your claim that the PPACA will cause a loss of private practice GP offices, further examination of it is unnecessary.

Source #2: What's interesting about this article is that they don't actually cite a particular survey. All they do is tell us that the survey was performed by "healthcare staffing recruiters Jackson Healthcare" and that it was new when the article was written (July 2012). But we can phone or email HealthLeaders Media for more information, should we so desire it. So, instead of concrete data, we're already getting a run around. Nice.

In any case, moving on to their actual claims, it says, "16% of the respondents said they will, or are strongly considering retiring, leaving medicine, or going part-time in 2012." So, what can we conclude about how many private practice GP offices will be reduced in 2012? Why, absolutely nothing!

What about the whole decade? The article says, "Blaming low compensation and the hassles of healthcare reform, 34% of physicians say they plan to leave the practice of medicine over the next decade, according to a new national survey." So, first of all, there's no breakdown of the reasons physicians give for why they are leaving. Maybe it's low compensation. Second of all, 34% is on the low end of your range. Third, and most decisively, it says nothing about private practice GP offices.

This article cannot be used to support your claim.

Source #3: This source says only that "83 percent of physicians surveyed are thinking of quitting because of Obamacare," and it says absolutely nothing about how many will actually quit. In fact, the study discussed in source #3 is specifically mentioned as one of those discredited in this article linked to by your own source #4. So, source #3 does not support your claim.

Source #4: There isn't a single sentence of source #4 that supports your claim. It provides some information about how some surveys, such as those cited in your source #3, have been discredited, and the rest of the article has no bearing on the discussion of whether the number of GP offices will be reduced, and if so by how much.

Source #5: Why, that's the same as source #4!

Not a single one of the sources you provided supports your claim. One was actually debunked by one of your own sources.
 
Believe me, I do the same thing all the time. I'll have some comprehensive response queued up and then find someone else beat me to the punch. Then I say "dammit!"
 
I just fluff up the cushions, bake the cookies, and wander into most conversations far too late to add anything of relevance, and that's only if I have anything of relevance to say about it in the first place.
 
You guys are missing the forest for the trees. My point wasn't to stress that Obamacare was going to cause doctors to quit just that the estimates that Obamacare was causing it are rooted in statistical realities that existed long before it was put into place. Those statistics are rooted in reality that neither side wants to approach because they're both using it for their own political gain regarding Obamacare. CVS has smartly realizied that there's going to be a hole in the private practice field of medical care wither it's a result of Obamacare or not.

They are looking to franchised the idea of the local general practice and use their corporate strength to create a nationwide network of small-town doctors. They will essentially be grouping everything that's the reason why most doctors aren't wanting to go into the general practice field right now into the national corporate level. That being high overhead of processing paperwork and other administrative costs and the fact that they spend more time running a business than they do actually treating patients. CVS is effectively removing that and opening it up for doctors to just be able to step in and take their patients and allowing the corporate headquarters model to deal with it from a nationwide standpoint.

They're taking advantage of the fact that politically most people are blinded by the fact that there is an actual underlying cause to the doctor statistics which are being banded about as being a result of Obamacare when it's actually a true sign of an underlying problem within the medical field.

Not to mention that the fact that their new corporate parent based model for admin duties will allow them to take on many of the Medicaid and Medicare patients the private practice don't or can't take on, because they can absorb the cost over a much larger field.

So the sources I provided, which you so diligently decided to tear apart, were not actually to justify the claim that the estimates of the amount of doctors would quit was because of Obamacare. You missed the second part of my post which was to say that those numbers were an actual fact that are being used in and ignored in the Obamacare debate. CVS recognizes this and is planning to use it for their own good.
 
No one missed anything. It's just that the fact that CVS has been opening GP "Minute Clinics" in their stores staffed by NPs and PAs for years and is doing so at a faster pace now (and making it more of a focus) has already been mentioned and discussed in the thread about ten times before you brought it up again like it was new information, so what would be the point in commenting on that again?
 
Data Holmes said:
You guys are missing the forest for the trees. My point wasn't to stress that Obamacare was going to cause doctors to quit just that the estimates that Obamacare was causing it are rooted in statistical realities that existed long before it was put into place. Those statistics are rooted in reality that neither side wants to approach because they're both using it for their own political gain regarding Obamacare. CVS has smartly realizied that there's going to be a hole in the private practice field of medical care wither it's a result of Obamacare or not.
Click to expand...

Your sources failed to show that there's going to be a loss of 30-60% of private practice GP offices at all, for any reason. Take ObamaCare out of the equation, and your sources still don't support a loss of 30-60% of private practice GP offices.

Having given what you claimed were five sources a fair shake and found them to offer no evidence in support of your numbers, that gives one excellent reason to conclude that your numbers are bogus, if not simply made-up. That's the only reality your numbers are rooted in.

Data Holmes said:
CVS is looking to start a new business model, IMHO. It's estimated that a side effect of ObamaCare will be the loss of anywhere from 30% to 60% of private pratice GP offices. While most political types in favor of it either dismiss/ignore the forcast, and those opposed to it use it as fuel to attack the new law saying it will not only cause many pratices to close, doctors to retire, and overload the hospital networks.
Click to expand...
If you didn't want to make this about ObamaCare, why did you mention ObamaCare? By incorporating a claim of bogus or made-up numbers in the context of ObamaCare, this passage is a good example of unwarranted politicization.

FWIW, I don't think that either bogus or made-up numbers or overly politicized rhetoric explain why a multibillion dollar business makes business decisions in any way that this forum and the people who read it deserve.

---

P.S. @Locutus: I'm sensing a pattern (re cloaking devices)!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top