The Federation's man power advantage

[The Overlord]

It seems like the Federation has a big man power over other powers in the Alpha Quadrant. Sure the Borg has assimilated so many worlds that it likely has trillion of drones and the Dominion can just mass produce soldiers on a industrial scale, but I don't see how the Federation doesn't have a huge man power advantage over the Cardassian Union, the Klingon Empire and the Romulan Empire.

Those empires only seem to use people at from one world as troops, we never see non Cardassians, non Romulans or non Klingons on any of their ships. Meanwhile the Federation can call upon members from the hundreds of worlds to assist them in a conflict.

I wonder how any of the Federation's Alpha Quadrant rivals are threats, if the Federation has such a huge man power advantage over them.

 

[T'Girl]

while i get the impression that both the romulan empire and the cardassian union are medium sized, the klingon empire does seem to be at least as big as the federation and could conceivably have a significantly larger population.



;

 

[jmampilly]

while i get the impression that both the romulan empire and the cardassian union are medium sized, the klingon empire does seem to be at least as big as the federation and could conceivably have a significantly larger population.



;

How could they have a larger population if they are entirely one species? There's no way they could procreate as quickly as the 150 different Federation member species.

 

[Cyke101]

while i get the impression that both the romulan empire and the cardassian union are medium sized, the klingon empire does seem to be at least as big as the federation and could conceivably have a significantly larger population.



;

How could they have a larger population if they are entirely one species? There's no way they could procreate as quickly as the 150 different Federation member species.

A couple things about that, though:

1. We really have no idea how much of Starfleet come from those 150 worlds. The vast majority of crewmen and personnel that we've seen are human with a handful of alien species, so it could be that Earth sends numbers that are comparable to the Klingons and supplemented only by a few non-humans. We also know that not everybody joins Starfleet as well in waves.

2. The Klingon empire is well established to be much older than the Federation, so they very much could have had the time to increase their population much more than the very Earth-centric Starfleet could in a couple hundred years

 

[The Overlord]

while i get the impression that both the romulan empire and the cardassian union are medium sized, the klingon empire does seem to be at least as big as the federation and could conceivably have a significantly larger population.



;

How could they have a larger population if they are entirely one species? There's no way they could procreate as quickly as the 150 different Federation member species.

A couple things about that, though:

1. We really have no idea how much of Starfleet come from those 150 worlds. The vast majority of crewmen and personnel that we've seen are human with a handful of alien species, so it could be that Earth sends numbers that are comparable to the Klingons and supplemented only by a few non-humans. We also know that not everybody joins Starfleet as well in waves.

2. The Klingon empire is well established to be much older than the Federation, so they very much could have had the time to increase their population much more than the very Earth-centric Starfleet could in a couple hundred years

Except in an episode of DS9, they had a Star Fleet ship that was manned entirely by Vulcans, so it seems like other worlds besides Earth can contribute a lot personnel to Star Fleet, which means they still have a big population advantage over other AQ powers.

Besides we have only seen a few Federation Starships in depth over the course of the shows and movies, there may be many ships where humans are the minority.

 

[Cyke101]

How could they have a larger population if they are entirely one species? There's no way they could procreate as quickly as the 150 different Federation member species.

A couple things about that, though:

1. We really have no idea how much of Starfleet come from those 150 worlds. The vast majority of crewmen and personnel that we've seen are human with a handful of alien species, so it could be that Earth sends numbers that are comparable to the Klingons and supplemented only by a few non-humans. We also know that not everybody joins Starfleet as well in waves.

2. The Klingon empire is well established to be much older than the Federation, so they very much could have had the time to increase their population much more than the very Earth-centric Starfleet could in a couple hundred years

Except in an episode of DS9, they had a Star Fleet ship that was manned entirely by Vulcans, so it seems like other worlds besides Earth can contribute a lot personnel to Star Fleet, which means they still have a big population advantage over other AQ powers.

Besides we have only seen a few Federation Starships in depth over the course of the shows and movies, there may be many ships where humans are the minority.

TOS also had the USS Intrepid, and TNG had the Hera, both of which were also manned by Vulcans. But in all three episodes, the script had to go out of its way to identify them as such, implying that an entire ship manned solely or primarily by a non-human species is not the norm. And even when our heroes do encounter other Starfleet ships, the vast majority of the time, those crews and personnel are mostly human. Out of the dozens of ships we've seen over the years, only three were explicitly stated to be populated by Vulcans. But mention the other 99% of the ships as mostly human and no one will bat an eye. Even Azetbur noted the lack of non-human diversity in VI.

(come to think of it, we've had 50 years of filmed Trek and Vulcans are the only species mentioned to make up the majority of a Starfleet ship's crew, and it only happened thrice. There could be other examples, but the sheer volume of material out there hints that that's a rarity. Consider that you're comparing ONE episode of DS9 versus 175 other episodes, including war episodes that often featured crew from other ships, starbases, and ground military.)

 

[USS Triumphant]

How could they have a larger population if they are entirely one species?.

Well, you see, when a vastly large number of Klingon mommies and daddies love each other very much....

 

[Cyke101]

How could they have a larger population if they are entirely one species?.

Well, you see, when a vastly large number of Klingon mommies and daddies love each other very much....

"You see, when Klingon Birds and Bees of Prey decide to replicate..."

 

[bbjeg]

Who knows how many kids your average Klingon family holds and who's to say worlds captured by Klingons don't make ships or weapons for them?

 

[Cyke101]

who's to say worlds captured by Klingons doesn't make ships or weapons for them?

That's another point, too. We know the Klingons are a race of conquerors -- surely the resources they've captured over the years have to go somewhere.

 

[Shik]

I suppose it come down to how much food is available, doesn't it?

 

[T'Girl]

How could they have a larger population if they are entirely one species? There's no way they could procreate as quickly as the 150 different Federation member species.

if the federation membership and the empire are each on one thousand planets and are reproducing at the same rate, they would have the same populaton. however if the klingons instead are on fifteen hundred planets and are creating more children (on average) than the federation members on their one thousand planets then the klingon would have a greater population..

And if the klingons are indeed capturing inhabited worlds (as kirk in errand of mercy said they did) then those subjugated populations would be a part of their overall manpower structure.

capture a hundred planets with a billion inhabitances each, then congradulations you just added a hundred billion "workers" to the glorious klingon empire.




.

 

[Thomas L]

conquered planets is something I'd wished we'd seen more about in Trek, if only to flesh out how Klingon and Romulan societies are designed, we do hear a lite bit about it in errand of mercy and I think there was something in an enterprise episode where Klingon domination of a planet was a plot point.

(incidentally is there something to be read into the fact that my browsers spell-check thinks Romulan is wrong but it has no problem with Klingon? )

 

[Ro_Laren]

It seems like the Federation has a big man power over other powers in the Alpha Quadrant. Sure the Borg has assimilated so many worlds that it likely has trillion of drones and the Dominion can just mass produce soldiers on a industrial scale, but I don't see how the Federation doesn't have a huge man power advantage over the Cardassian Union, the Klingon Empire and the Romulan Empire.

Those empires only seem to use people at from one world as troops, we never see non Cardassians, non Romulans or non Klingons on any of their ships. Meanwhile the Federation can call upon members from the hundreds of worlds to assist them in a conflict.

I wonder how any of the Federation's Alpha Quadrant rivals are threats, if the Federation has such a huge man power advantage over them.

I never thought of that before!

 

[AirCommodore]

It seems like the Federation has a big man power over other powers in the Alpha Quadrant. Sure the Borg has assimilated so many worlds that it likely has trillion of drones and the Dominion can just mass produce soldiers on a industrial scale, but I don't see how the Federation doesn't have a huge man power advantage over the Cardassian Union, the Klingon Empire and the Romulan Empire.

Those empires only seem to use people at from one world as troops, we never see non Cardassians, non Romulans or non Klingons on any of their ships. Meanwhile the Federation can call upon members from the hundreds of worlds to assist them in a conflict.

I wonder how any of the Federation's Alpha Quadrant rivals are threats, if the Federation has such a huge man power advantage over them.

Even with an average of 1 billion per member world with zero colonies, we would be talking about 150 billion. That's a lot. Even if people join Starfleet at only the anemic rate people join the Irish Defense Forces (about two-tenths of one percent of the population), that would still mean over 300 million people serving in Starfleet.

There should certainly never be any manpower shortages. And the number of ships they could build should be colossal! Massively beyond the numbers we would hear in DS9.

 

[Xerxes1979]

I don't see the Federation outbreeding Klingons. Rapid maturation combined with a 150 year life span(DS9 stupidity) would seem to indicate they are destined to rule the universe.

The only way to reconcile this is to accept an extremely high rate of Klingon on Klingon murder.

 

[Runetouch]

The thing is, we don't know. The fact that nearly all the ships that we see in the show seem to consist of humans with only a few other species, seems to indicate that the majority of Starfleet comes from one race only. And if Klingons breed as much as humans, then Starfleet and Klingons would be equal in terms of numbers.

 

[vulcan redshirt]

The fact that Starfleet Academy is on Earth probably skews recruitment significantly. Remember how Sisko said that he went home each night until his transporter credits ran out. Although that was probably above normal amounts of going home for earther cadets, for any off-worlders, going to Starfleet Academy would really be a case of 'Love you Mum and Dad, hope you can come to my graduation in 3 years'.

Unlike current military service where everyone gets home from time to time unless they die on operations, it is likely that some non-humans (and also some human colonists), especially from far-flung member worlds would never see home again until they retired.

Biology will also have a part in the under-representation of non-humans in the main Starfleet (that's not to say that there are not local reserve fleets that work together with STarfleet in times of emergency). Vulcans will need to tailor their postings around their Ponn Farr Cycle, Andorian reproduction rates could be affected by individuals being off-world for a long time, given the 4 genders so going offworld may be discouraged, joined Trills probably rarely go off-world for extended periods of time in case they need to get medical help for the Symbiont.

However Klingons probably do not allow subjugated races or client states into their military. But looking at Alexander Rozhenko, it seems that Klingons mature quickly, and also that Kang, Kor and Koloth lived well over 100 years, it is plausible that Klingons can have many children over their lifetime, allowing for rapid population growth if required.

 

[USS Triumphant]

The only way to reconcile this is to accept an extremely high rate of Klingon on Klingon murder.

Well, they DO have a proverb about the number of throats a single running warrior with a knife can slit in one night...

The fact that Starfleet Academy is on Earth

The Academy actually has many training bases and annexes throughout the Federation. There probably is some prestige in attending the original Academy in San Francisco, though - being able to rub elbows with many higher ranking officers serving at SFC and teaching at the Academy there would not be least among them. And that would probably tend to give Earthers a home field advantage for getting prominent postings, such as those on the fleet flagship.

 

[Anwar]

It wouldn't surprise me if there were several Academies on various Federation worlds, it's just that the Earth one was the first one.