Who wants to see a TAS Remasered project?
- Thread starter milojthatch
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Well it looks a lot better than TOS originally did. It's not as good as they can do it now, but that wasn't really the goal, was it?
RAMA
Whether or not the effects of TOS-R were "better" or not is in the eye of the beholder. But I'm not upset that they made the attempt. Sometimes it worked and looked good, other times not so much.
I like the animated series more than I expected to and would enjoy a remastering or even mild revisionism.
It would be nice to see it with better music and to have some of the animation errors fixed at the least.
Ideally, they'd add a bit of colour to the characters as they were always far too pale.
It would be nice to see it with better music and to have some of the animation errors fixed at the least.
Ideally, they'd add a bit of colour to the characters as they were always far too pale.
Actually it's not, they are clearly better than what they did in the 1960s. As for whether it was "state of the art" that's another matter entirely. You may prefer the poorer effects of the 60s, but that doesn't make them better.
RAMA
Whether the new TOS-R effects are better than the original TOS effects isn't a factual matter. 
If the assertion was that they aren't as grainy, well, that might get some traction as an objective statement.
Anyway, the subject here is not that, but rather TAS, TAS remastering, TAS redux, TAS-SE, etc., yes?
Ah, I can see that spockboy might have meant that.
Well, I can say flat-out that I would never pay money to own such a thing. Now, I might be interested in hearing a demo reel of it. Heck, I might be interested in watching a demo clip with new animation, remixed soundtrack, etc. But pay money for any of that??? No.
Unfortunately (or perhaps fortunately?), I'd seriously doubt that CBS would allow unsolicited demo clips to be posted. My belief is that using portions of the original audio tracks in such a project and posting the results online without first receiving permission would constitute a copyright violation.
As someone (edit - RAMA) has already said, the voice direction itself does not generally lend itself well to these sorts of "improvements".
Also, I respectfully submit that people who think that such special editions of TAS are feasible are seriously underestimating the level of work that would be required to produce a watchable, entertaining, and attractive result.
If the assertion was that they aren't as grainy, well, that might get some traction as an objective statement.Anyway, the subject here is not that, but rather TAS, TAS remastering, TAS redux, TAS-SE, etc., yes?
The only way this could REALLY work would be to obtain the "voices only" track from Filmation, use the now released original music, and THEN have your "balls to the wall" animation with it. That is the only approach that would interest me (as an animator)
What release of the original music? There's been no release of the TAS music, AFAIK.
I think he means TOS music--re-scoring the TAS episodes with TOS musical cues. (That would interesting; TOS music is almost a Trek character all by itself.)
Ah, I can see that spockboy might have meant that.
Well, I can say flat-out that I would never pay money to own such a thing. Now, I might be interested in hearing a demo reel of it. Heck, I might be interested in watching a demo clip with new animation, remixed soundtrack, etc. But pay money for any of that??? No.
Unfortunately (or perhaps fortunately?), I'd seriously doubt that CBS would allow unsolicited demo clips to be posted. My belief is that using portions of the original audio tracks in such a project and posting the results online without first receiving permission would constitute a copyright violation.
As someone (edit - RAMA) has already said, the voice direction itself does not generally lend itself well to these sorts of "improvements".
Also, I respectfully submit that people who think that such special editions of TAS are feasible are seriously underestimating the level of work that would be required to produce a watchable, entertaining, and attractive result.
A few things.
Since some of the cast recorded their lines "on the go" at whatever studio was convenient, I doubt there was much "direction" at all. I've directed professional voice actors (from Janet Waldo to Billy West) in studio and there's an art to getting them "into the moment" so that they're ACTING and not just reading their lines. Even the pros get curiously flat if you don't work with them on this. Since the Trek cast weren't experienced voice actors anyway, it's no wonder their performances were often so meh, considering the circumstances.
We've discussed this before and there's some question as to if the voice tracks even still exist separate of being mixed with music and sound effects, so reusing any of the sound would potentially be very difficult.
re TOS-R type "improvements", "better" IS debatable, despite Rama's assertion otherwise. In a film everything must be seen in context. I could cut Star Wars VFX (with the color saturation turned off) into old Flash Gordon serials and while the effects themselves would arguably be of better quality, seen as a piece they would not fit with the surrounding period photography and stick out like a sore thumb, which is often the case in TOS-R. Is that "better"? You decide.
Since some of the cast recorded their lines "on the go" at whatever studio was convenient, I doubt there was much "direction" at all. I've directed professional voice actors (from Janet Waldo to Billy West) in studio and there's an art to getting them "into the moment" so that they're ACTING and not just reading their lines. Even the pros get curiously flat if you don't work with them on this. Since the Trek cast weren't experienced voice actors anyway, it's no wonder their performances were often so meh, considering the circumstances.
We've discussed this before and there's some question as to if the voice tracks even still exist separate of being mixed with music and sound effects, so reusing any of the sound would potentially be very difficult.
re TOS-R type "improvements", "better" IS debatable, despite Rama's assertion otherwise. In a film everything must be seen in context. I could cut Star Wars VFX (with the color saturation turned off) into old Flash Gordon serials and while the effects themselves would arguably be of better quality, seen as a piece they would not fit with the surrounding period photography and stick out like a sore thumb, which is often the case in TOS-R. Is that "better"? You decide.
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I gotta be honest here, I don't find the remastered effects "better" than most of the original effects. The CGI models were "overlit" (they always looked like they had a spotlight bouncing off of them) and had a plastic look about them. Not to mention that some models simply were low-polygon, looking at the Klingon model from season three. Some models look like they belong in a video game.
I think they could do new TOS effects that do the originals justice and fit in with the live action elements, I just don't think that happened in TOS-R.
Exactly.
Sorry, but I'm really pedantic about this: the new CGI FX are not "remastered." The newly added FX are the only part of the show that wasn't remastered. It's the original FX -- along with the rest of the original series -- which were remastered. The remaster of TOS was complete before any new FX were created.
Hey, I did warn you that I'm pedantic.
This needs to be repeated again and again and again. And again.
I totally agree. Which is why I watch TOS in glorious HD with the original FX, also in HD. Some of the FX hold up, some don't, but they are what they are, products of their time.
I recall Ptrope trying to do a CGI update, but don't know what the status of that is these days.
I'd be up for it to be honest. I don't really have an issue with "re-eFXing" (yeah, I'm making up a new word) Star Trek and I enjoy both versions of the original series. The original FX I grew up with, but the new versions somehow made the world seem more "realized", though I didn't always agree with the execution.
As for the cartoon, well my nostalgia for it isn't as strong as it is for the live action version, but it's still there in some small degree. I do agree that the voice work lacks some punch to it, but I'd still like to see this done.
I'd be up for it to be honest. I don't really have an issue with "re-eFXing" (yeah, I'm making up a new word) Star Trek and I enjoy both versions of the original series. The original FX I grew up with, but the new versions somehow made the world seem more "realized", though I didn't always agree with the execution.
As for the cartoon, well my nostalgia for it isn't as strong as it is for the live action version, but it's still there in some small degree. I do agree that the voice work lacks some punch to it, but I'd still like to see this done.
OP: No. If we have learned anything from the frankly ass-brained "re-imagining" of original work, is that it always fails. From the gross butchering seen in the Star Wars Special Editions (and every DVD/Blu-Ray tinkering since that 1997 release), to TOS-R, altering the work as released to the public just to satisfy a generation that cannot wrap their heads around something that does not appeared be Photoshopped ( really CG, but Photoshop is the slang for such tinkering) is a disaster waiting to happen.
More than likely, they would not enjoy the content in the first place, since the "re-imagining" philosophy is one of feeling something of a certain age is "wrong" or "bad."
More than likely, they would not enjoy the content in the first place, since the "re-imagining" philosophy is one of feeling something of a certain age is "wrong" or "bad."
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When I was younger up into my teens and even early twenties I could be dismissive of some older things even though I had certainly seen enough of it on TV. But as I grew in experience and perception I learned to see the value of more of what came before "my time." I learned that while it could be different from what I was immediately familiar with I was beginning to see a lot of intelligence and talent and vision in it. I was also seeing the foundations of what we have now. There is great value in what came before, not the least of which we wouldn't have what we have now if not for the work of those who came before us.
Sadly an attitude has arisen that if we don't like the past we can revise it, and this goes beyond just making a new version like a remake or reboot. Now they want to redo the actual original work. In my view this revisionist attitude corrupts the context of the original work and is disrespectful of the creative efforts of many talented individuals who strived to create art and magic with next to none of the resources that exist today.
For me an excellent example of this is 2001: A Space Odyssey. The f/x in that film are astounding, the pinnacle of what could be done then, and all without cgi.
But it wouldn't surprise me if someone somewhere thinks it should be redone.
Sadly an attitude has arisen that if we don't like the past we can revise it, and this goes beyond just making a new version like a remake or reboot. Now they want to redo the actual original work. In my view this revisionist attitude corrupts the context of the original work and is disrespectful of the creative efforts of many talented individuals who strived to create art and magic with next to none of the resources that exist today.
For me an excellent example of this is 2001: A Space Odyssey. The f/x in that film are astounding, the pinnacle of what could be done then, and all without cgi.
But it wouldn't surprise me if someone somewhere thinks it should be redone.
Yes, yes, that old line... There is no "clearly better" except personal preference. I can say the original effects are "better" because they don't look so glaringly out-of-place compared to the rest of the production. But it's all opinion, there is no objective standard.
What we might call "revising," as opposed to "preservation" or "re-mastering," has nothing to do with original intent or artistic integrity. All it has to do with is getting new money from an old property. As such, it will continue as long as the numbers are right, but little should be expected of it artistically.
"What is art?" can be highly subjective. What one finds as art can be seen as disposable trash by someone else.
Something like TOS-R or Lucas' tinkering is not preserving the past, but erasing and rewriting it. Actual remastering a work does preserve the past because it's basically cleaning it up. But it has become common for many to confuse revisioning with remastering. They are distinctly different things.
Something like TOS-R or Lucas' tinkering is not preserving the past, but erasing and rewriting it. Actual remastering a work does preserve the past because it's basically cleaning it up. But it has become common for many to confuse revisioning with remastering. They are distinctly different things.
I just plain disagree here. I don't mind the tinkering as long as the originals are available in their unaltered form for those that want it that way. By locking it down, you're essentially guaranteeing that eventually the property will fall out of the public consciousness.
Essentially, CBS did it the right way with TOS (regardless of what I think of the results) and Lucas did it the wrong way with Star Wars.
Re: Who wants to see a TAS RemasTered project?
Yes, stupid typos!
I completely agree, any updated animation/changes should be accompanied with the original versions on Blu-ray. I actually LOVED that the TOS Blu-rays came with both versions.
I think some who read my original post are focusing on my possible suggestions too much. A blu-ray release for TAS doesn't have to be anything more than converting the show as is to HD. In that sence, yes, it would be a "remastered" version.
Yes, stupid typos!
I completely agree, any updated animation/changes should be accompanied with the original versions on Blu-ray. I actually LOVED that the TOS Blu-rays came with both versions.
I think some who read my original post are focusing on my possible suggestions too much. A blu-ray release for TAS doesn't have to be anything more than converting the show as is to HD. In that sence, yes, it would be a "remastered" version.
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