The Khan Blood Conundrum

[SeerSGB]

Didn't Seven bring Neelix back from the dead with her nanoprobes one time?

Yep.

Maybe it would have been better if a space probe had revived Kirk. Or maybe if left his lifeless irradiated body on a planet created out of nebula gas by one single torpedo.

I don't get it, really. Of all the medical save the days, Khan's blood isn't that big of a deal. It's just the same old trope (McCoy's magic hypo) without the techobabble.

 

[USS Triumphant]

I don't get it, really. Of all the medical save the days, Khan's blood isn't that big of a deal. It's just the same old trope (McCoy's magic hypo) without the techobabble.

The big deal is how reproducable it is. They have a bunch of sources of the blood on ice, so they've effectively cured death. Kind of kills a source of drama for future Trek.

 

[Tosk]

^Most likely because the way it's presented. Trying to make it a surprise (that no one was surprised by) if they'd had McCoy figure it out for himself and plan for it, it would have come across a lot better.

The scene where they shoe-horned in the 'testing on a dead tribble' exposition was painful.

 

[Set Harth]

Kind of kills a source of drama for future Trek.

It's Trek. You can always be disintegrated by phaser or your whole starship can be blowed up real good. Death is still on the table.

 

[SeerSGB]

I don't get it, really. Of all the medical save the days, Khan's blood isn't that big of a deal. It's just the same old trope (McCoy's magic hypo) without the techobabble.

The big deal is how reproducable it is. They have a bunch of sources of the blood on ice, so they've effectively cured death. Kind of kills a source of drama for future Trek.

Actually we don't know that for sure. All we know is Khan, for certain, has the mutant-healing factor. If, as you said, McCoy thought he had it on tap in the other tubes, why bother with Khan--beyond a warranted ass-kicking.

It doesn't kill any source of future drama in Trek any more than any other other technobabble miracle cures.

 

[Maurice]

This is a series where thought travels at FTL speeds, people can be blasted to atoms and reassembled, and a magic wave makes planets out of nebulas which also turns a dead body into an infant which then grows to just the right age and some telepathy hocus pocus lets his marbles get put back, and yet people endlessly gripe about blood with regenerative properties?

Seriously?

 

[Pauln6]

This is a series where thought travels at FTL speeds, people can be blasted to atoms and reassembled, and a magic wave makes planets out of nebulas which also turns a dead body into an infant which then grows to just the right age and some telepathy hocus pocus lets his marbles get put back, and yet people endlessly gripe about blood with regenerative properties?

Seriously?

The issue isn't how silly stuff is, it's the potential ripple effect. Silly, universe changing stuff that that everyone 'forgets' instantly to avoid ruining the premise of the franchise gets elevated to a different level.

In fairness, the recent Khan comic has proposed that the transport to Kronos was pre-planned using a series of relays, a bit like the stargate bridge. While silly, this is less silly and less universe changing than a direct transport because it is more consistent with existing Trek tech and impractical for general use.

 

[Therin of Andor]

eah, but in the ALT Universe, they already perfected it in 1996 or so.

But kept it secret. So if Khan existed in our own Earth's history, or even the Prime Universe (in which Khan rose to power) it would be a secret too. Hence my friend was part of a clinical trial in 2013.

 

[F. King Daniel]

This is a series where thought travels at FTL speeds, people can be blasted to atoms and reassembled, and a magic wave makes planets out of nebulas which also turns a dead body into an infant which then grows to just the right age and some telepathy hocus pocus lets his marbles get put back, and yet people endlessly gripe about blood with regenerative properties?

Seriously?

The issue isn't how silly stuff is, it's the potential ripple effect. Silly, universe changing stuff that that everyone 'forgets' instantly to avoid ruining the premise of the franchise gets elevated to a different level.

But why does it this version bother you so much, when TNG had similar long-range beaming and the Immortality Device aka transporter? How do they get a pass?

We haven't even seen the next film yet - you assumed transwarp beaming would be forgotten, but it was used once more and then written out of the universe.

 

[Set Harth]

In fairness, the recent Khan comic has proposed that the transport to Kronos was pre-planned using a series of relays, a bit like the stargate bridge.

I believe this was also in the novelization.

While silly, this is less silly and less universe changing than a direct transport because it is more consistent with existing Trek tech and impractical for general use.

I don't see why it really makes any meaningful difference - except as an obvious attempt to mollify fans who were frustrated by the film's depiction. No matter how many relays you end up using, the last relay is still going to be at interstellar distance from Kronos, so transwarp beaming is still just as powerful either way.

and then written out of the universe.

Say what?

 

[SeerSGB]

This is a series where thought travels at FTL speeds, people can be blasted to atoms and reassembled, and a magic wave makes planets out of nebulas which also turns a dead body into an infant which then grows to just the right age and some telepathy hocus pocus lets his marbles get put back, and yet people endlessly gripe about blood with regenerative properties?

Seriously?

The issue isn't how silly stuff is, it's the potential ripple effect. Silly, universe changing stuff that that everyone 'forgets' instantly to avoid ruining the premise of the franchise gets elevated to a different level.

In fairness, the recent Khan comic has proposed that the transport to Kronos was pre-planned using a series of relays, a bit like the stargate bridge. While silly, this is less silly and less universe changing than a direct transport because it is more consistent with existing Trek tech and impractical for general use.

No more potential than any of the other god-mod stuff that Trek has cooked up over the decades. It'll be used or ignored in accordance to the dictates of the plot.

I sincerely believe that over half the people who have a "problem" with the tropes in STID are more pissed about who made it than the actual trope in use.

I enjoy STID, I think it's a good movie and a fun Trek movie. But the biggest sin that movie commits is that it's a paint-by-numbers, sterotypical, standard Trek formula movie. Storytelling wise, STID is nothing special or worse when compared to past Trek movies, it's just more of the same formula.

 

[Ryan8bit]

I think it's odd that the same people who criticize technobabble solutions are ok with magic blood. It's pretty much the same thing, just without so much jargon. Especially since it wasn't very dramatic.

 

[F. King Daniel]

and then written out of the universe.

Say what?

The formula is confiscated from Scotty by Section 31, who manufactured the portable transwarp beaming device in their underground London lair, which is then destroyed by Suicide Bomber Dad. Unless Section 31 posted the formula online or distributed a memo fleet-wide, it now only exists in the elder Spock's head.

 

[doubleohfive]

There is no conundrum. You guys are making a big deal out of a small plot point.

 

[Pauln6]

This is a series where thought travels at FTL speeds, people can be blasted to atoms and reassembled, and a magic wave makes planets out of nebulas which also turns a dead body into an infant which then grows to just the right age and some telepathy hocus pocus lets his marbles get put back, and yet people endlessly gripe about blood with regenerative properties?

Seriously?

The issue isn't how silly stuff is, it's the potential ripple effect. Silly, universe changing stuff that that everyone 'forgets' instantly to avoid ruining the premise of the franchise gets elevated to a different level.

But why does it this version bother you so much, when TNG had similar long-range beaming and the Immortality Device aka transporter? How do they get a pass?

We haven't even seen the next film yet - you assumed transwarp beaming would be forgotten, but it was used once more and then written out of the universe.

I don't recall saying that the other instances didn't bother me. I've whined about them in the appropriate threads in those forums too. But even if i hadn't two wrongs don't make a right. Nor do 12...

For me, the healing blood is lame but it's more of an issue that they felt the need to try and emulate the original movie too much and that magic blood was a lame, lazy way to resurrect the character. Spock Prime's death was heart-wrenching. NuPikes death had pathos. NuKirk's had almost none because it was so obvious where the plot was leading and that lack of impact was nothing like the original.

 

[The Doctor]

^Most likely because the way it's presented. Trying to make it a surprise (that no one was surprised by) if they'd had McCoy figure it out for himself and plan for it, it would have come across a lot better.

The scene where they shoe-horned in the 'testing on a dead tribble' exposition was painful.

That scene read very much like a studio note. "Are you sure that the audience will remember that Khan's blood cured the little girl about an hour ago? Maybe you need to remind them."

 

[SeerSGB]

^Most likely because the way it's presented. Trying to make it a surprise (that no one was surprised by) if they'd had McCoy figure it out for himself and plan for it, it would have come across a lot better.

The scene where they shoe-horned in the 'testing on a dead tribble' exposition was painful.

That scene read very much like a studio note. "Are you sure that the audience will remember that Khan's blood cured the little girl about an hour ago? Maybe you need to remind them."

That scene could have worked better--I'll grant that. Spock or Carol being the one doing the testing would have worked. I'm actually seeing Carol doing it: She's helping McCoy, notices something "odd" about Khan's blood, decides to play Re-Animator: The Home Game on a dead tribble as McCoy complains about waste of time or playing God.

 

[shapeshifter]

Spock Prime's death was heart-wrenching. NuPikes death had pathos. NuKirk's had almost none... ...

Well, two outta three ain't bad.

 

[F. King Daniel]

^Most likely because the way it's presented. Trying to make it a surprise (that no one was surprised by) if they'd had McCoy figure it out for himself and plan for it, it would have come across a lot better.

The scene where they shoe-horned in the 'testing on a dead tribble' exposition was painful.

That scene read very much like a studio note. "Are you sure that the audience will remember that Khan's blood cured the little girl about an hour ago? Maybe you need to remind them."

I just wish they'd introduced the dying tribble earlier so it wasn't quite so random. Was it Scotty's tribble from Delta Vega? How did it die?

 

[Therin of Andor]

NuKirk's had almost none because it was so obvious where the plot was leading and that lack of impact was nothing like the original.

If you're a person who easily spots McGuffins and whodunnits.

Here I was, incredulously thinking the third movie was going to be "The Search for Kirk", right up until the second that the dead tribble started breathing again. Suddenly, it dawned on me how they would resurrect Kirk.

So it worked for me. Plenty of "impact". But purposely not like the original, which took another whole movie to play out a resurrection. I guess that makes me dumb?

Was it Scotty's tribble from Delta Vega?

I think so, but remember there was also a "Tribbles" two-parter in the IDW comic, which set up the scene for the 2% who read the comics and play the computer games.