MYTHBUSTERS 10th Anniversary Season

[Christopher]

I should clarify: I have no problem understanding why it is more logical for Han to shoot first, why it fits better with the facts of the scene. What I couldn't understand was the emotion fans invested in it, the way they seemed to celebrate and glorify the act of shooting first as if it were somehow heroic or admirable, which seems morally backwards to me. But Adam's explanation makes far more emotional and ethical sense to me -- that it's not about glorifying the act of violence, but about valuing its role in Han's emotional journey from scoundrel to hero. It's about the contrast between the ruthlessness of that act and the compassion and selflessness he develops later on. That's something I can actually understand getting emotional about.

 

[Gepard]

It also ups the stakes for Obi-Wan and Luke; they've just signed on with a smuggler who shoots a man in cold blood in the very next scene. It's effective because it increases the tension: who is this guy? And just how much trouble might Obi-Wan and Luke be in for hiring him?

Showing Han fire in clear self-defense lessens the impact. It hurts the movie because, well, it's bad drama to have Greedo shoot first.

 

[JarodRussell]

I should clarify: I have no problem understanding why it is more logical for Han to shoot first, why it fits better with the facts of the scene. What I couldn't understand was the emotion fans invested in it, the way they seemed to celebrate and glorify the act of shooting first as if it were somehow heroic or admirable, which seems morally backwards to me. But Adam's explanation makes far more emotional and ethical sense to me -- that it's not about glorifying the act of violence, but about valuing its role in Han's emotional journey from scoundrel to hero. It's about the contrast between the ruthlessness of that act and the compassion and selflessness he develops later on. That's something I can actually understand getting emotional about.

Or that it was just incredibly cool that he didn't give a fuck and shot first.

Similar:
[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anEuw8F8cpE[/yt]

 

[Christopher]

It also ups the stakes for Obi-Wan and Luke; they've just signed on with a smuggler who shoots a man in cold blood in the very next scene. It's effective because it increases the tension: who is this guy? And just how much trouble might Obi-Wan and Luke be in for hiring him?

Another good point.

 

[Forbin]

I don't know that anyone was glorifying Han shooting first, it's just that it was so perfectly sensible to shoot first in that situation, that redoing it so he shoots AFTER he gets shot at makes Han look like a complete idiot. At least, that's why *I* was against it.

 

[Trekker4747]

I don't know that anyone was glorifying Han shooting first, it's just that it was so perfectly sensible to shoot first in that situation, that redoing it so he shoots AFTER he gets shot at makes Han look like a complete idiot. At least, that's why *I* was against it.

Same, I don't even buy that it "makes Han look dangerous" between what we're told about the space port and everything else we see and are told we've enough to go on that he's not exactly a stand-up guy on first blush.

Killing Greedo first doesn't, IMHO, make Han look "more dangerous" or anything of the sort. He clearly had reason and justification to kill Greedo. Again, Greedo had *just said* he was going to kill Han to collect the bounty on his head. I don't think it makes Han look all that dangerous or amoral to kill a someone who just said this.

It's not like Greedo was some innocent guy who accidentally sat in the wrong booth and Han didn't like it so he shot him. Leading is to go, "Hey, if Luke says or does the wrong thing this Han guy will go off!"

We see this happen and go, "Huh. This guy has some shady business dealings and already has a price on his head! But at least he's smart enough to kill a man threatening him."

 

[davejames]

For me what that scene did was reinforce what a gritty and dangerous place the SW universe really could be. It's not so much a matter of right and wrong; Han was simply doing what was necessary in order to survive in a world of smugglers and bounty hunters.

And yeah, it WAS pretty badass as well. I don't think there's anything wrong with that (anymore than it's wrong to get a thrill from watching Robocop or Dirty Harry blow away vicious and evil bad guys; we're talking about the freakin movies here).

 

[Christopher]

Well, I can sympathize a lot more with Adam's explanation here than I can with the idea of getting a thrill from homicide, however fanciful.

 

[Trekker4747]

It's not homicide if it's in self-defense.

 

[Christopher]

It's not homicide if it's in self-defense.

It's not murder if it's in self-defense. But legally speaking, the word "homicide" refers to any killing of a human being (or in this case, Rodian) by another human being (are Corellians human?), regardless of its motivation or legality. Hence the term "justifiable homicide," which includes killing in self-defense. Murder is the specific kind of homicide which is unlawful and committed with malice aforethought.

 

[Forbin]

Justifiable Rodiacide.

 

[Reverend]

I think the "Han Shoot First" thing is sort of a microcosm of everything that's wrong with the Special Editions. As in fixing things that weren't broken and/or making it look even worse in the process.

Not every change falls into this category as there were a number of changes that were genuine improvements, but those were mostly effects shots like the X-wings launching or an extra shot of Slave One or sorting out those dodgy landspeeder shots. This was the only one (that I recall) that actually changes a character in a pretty fundamental way.

Then there's other stuff that fall into the "nice try, but didn't really work" category like the foreground CG Dewbacks, comic relief loader droids & Jawas etc. Most of which I can live with, but could just as easily do without.

 

[Trekker4747]

I think the "Han Shoot First" thing is sort of a microcosm of everything that's wrong with the Special Editions. As in fixing things that weren't broken and/or making it look even worse in the process.

Not every change falls into this category as there were a number of changes that were genuine improvements, but those were mostly effects shots like the X-wings launching or an extra shot of Slave One or sorting out those dodgy landspeeder shots. This was the only one (that I recall) that actually changes a character in a pretty fundamental way.

Then there's other stuff that fall into the "nice try, but didn't really work" category like the foreground CG Dewbacks, comic relief loader droids & Jawas etc. Most of which I can live with, but could just as easily do without.

As they say in during the entry into Mos Eisley during the CGI creature scene, something to the effect of "Man! It's great that they were finally able to put this stuff in so that the story can finally, really be told!"

The CGI BS added nothing. Greedo shooting first added nothing. The scene with Jabba and Han (which still looks like ass and completely contradicts how we see Jabba later on) looks like ass. Just none of it adds anything at all. And the things that needing fixing (like some matte lines, the look of the light sabers) didn't really get touched that much. The "Greedo shoots first", as you said, really is a good example of the entire SE. It was "fixing" something or adding something that didn't need fixing or added. Mos Eisley was an iconic place seen as a "hive of wretched scum and villainy" pretty well for 25 years without all the CGI nonsense and comic relief added in. So it obviously wasn't needed to give the space port anymore "character." It pretty much DEFINED the concept of a seedy spaceport.

But, yeaj, a CGI dewback walking right in front of the camera and a Jawa dangling from another dewback really made the space port that much more "alive."

 

[TheSeeker]

I think I hate the new musical number in RoTJ more than Han shooting first.

 

[Trekker4747]

I think I hate the new musical number in RoTJ more than Han shooting first.

Ugh, the "Jedi Rocks" scene? Yeah. That's just utterly horrible and I don't know what it is were supposed to get from it or what it adds to anything in the movie at all. I mean seeing an animated, sentient, frog testicle singing in an unintelligible alien language for several minutes *really* adds to the story you're trying to tell, Lucas.

Correct me if I'm wrong but Empire comes out of the Special Editions pretty much unscathed, doesn't it? I struggle to think of an addition or change that gets people as angry as the "Greedo Shooting First" thing or that's as annoying as the "Jedi Rocks" musical interlude.

I'm sure the addition of animated greebles and all of that is annoying in an "adds nothing" sort of way but nothing as big as Mos Eisley introduction or other things. Heck, I think Empire is a good example of the way the whole series should have been done with addition of the windows and such at Cloud City to really give it an expanded, grander, feel. The occasional added greeble but nothing as blatant and in-your-face as the entry to Mos Eisley and no change that's as big or as annoying as Greedo Shooting First, "Jedi Rocks" or -sigh- making the Anakin Force Ghost at the end of Jedi Hayden Christensen.

 

[Christopher]

I really liked the livelier Mos Eisley of the Special Edition. And the expanded Cloud City vistas as well. But I agree the Greedo thing, the changed songs in ROTJ, and the replacement of Anakin were not improvements.

 

[davejames]

For me the SE Mos Eisley suffered from the same problem as every other planet in the prequels-- the CG just made the place so damn busy and crowded that it no longer felt like as real or believable a place.

And it also made Tatooine seem MUCH more fun and interesting that Luke made it out to be. Where before, you completely understood why he was so eager to escape from such a lifeless and desolate rock in the middle of nowhere.

 

[Trekker4747]

For me the SE Mos Eisley suffered from the same problem as every other planet in the prequels-- the CG just made the place so damn busy and crowded that it no longer felt like as real or believable a place.

And it also made Tatooine seem MUCH more fun and interesting that Luke made it out to be. Where before, you completely understood why he was so eager to escape from such a lifeless and desolate rock in the middle of nowhere.

And it just made Tatooine seem too "populated' and lively. I mean ME was bustling with activity!

 

[davejames]

Yeah, there was something almost eeriely quiet about a lot of the planets in the OT, that I'm really hoping JJ is able to get back to for his movies. And that he'll refrain from having tons of flying doodads and cute little critters constantly running around the screen.

I thought he did a pretty good job with the planets in the Trek movies (even if he never really slowed the story down long enough for you to appreciate them).

 

[Christopher]

For me the SE Mos Eisley suffered from the same problem as every other planet in the prequels-- the CG just made the place so damn busy and crowded that it no longer felt like as real or believable a place.

Have you ever been to Times Square on a Saturday night? There are plenty of real places that are incredibly busy and crowded, far more so than the Special Edition version of Mos Eisley.

And it just made Tatooine seem too "populated' and lively. I mean ME was bustling with activity!

It is a wretched hive of scum and villainy. One expects a hive to be bustling.

And just because the largest city in the area was populated and lively, that doesn't mean the whole planet was. Luke literally lived on a farm. The nearest town was Anchorhead. Mos Eisley is a more distant city, a place that one would need a "transport" or a landspeeder to reach from Anchorhead. It's the one large city proximate to the rural area where Luke grew up, but it's still a significant distance away. It goes without saying that it would be a much more active and populous place than Luke was accustomed to.