Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof should not Return.

[Set Harth]

How is what I said a strawman?

Because I have not argued that the writers of TWOK and STID respectively were working for distinct franchises or corporations; because I have not alleged legal copyright infringement; because my position was about the actions of individuals and had nothing to do with corporations.

Things like call backs and homages are a common tool for writers working in long running franchises

You know what's uncommon? Ripping off a whole scene, just with two characters' roles cleverly switched, even going so far as to use dialogue lifted from the original scene. I don't think the average "callback" or "homage" is so bold as to boldly go there.

 

[Nerys Myk]

How is what I said a strawman?

Because I have not argued that the writers of TWOK and STID respectively were working for distinct franchises or corporations; because I have not alleged legal copyright infringement; because my position was about the actions of individuals and had nothing to do with corporations.

Again, in answer to a question about companies ripping themselves off, you brought up Romney's quote. Those are the two statements I was responding to. No strawman, just a statement about the reality of work for hire.

Things like callbacks and homages are a common tool for writers working in long running franchises

You know what's uncommon? Ripping off a whole scene, just with two characters' roles cleverly switched, even going so far as to use dialogue lifted from the original scene. I don't think the average "callback" or "homage" is so bold as to boldly go there.

Sure they would, its pretty much the point of the device to either use the situation/dialog as previously seen or find a way to flip it.

 

[MakeshiftPython]

A good example of a callback was Nero screaming Spock's name like Kirk shouted "Khan", which means we had two call backs to in a row so far.

 

[Nerys Myk]

A good example of a callback was Nero screaming Spock's name like Kirk shouted "Khan", which means we had two call backs to in a row so far.

So any time a character shouts another characters name in Star Trek its a callback to Kirk in TWOK?

 

[Ovation]

Yes. And a lazy one at that.

 

[MakeshiftPython]

A good example of a callback was Nero screaming Spock's name like Kirk shouted "Khan", which means we had two call backs to in a row so far.

So any time a character shouts another characters name in Star Trek its a callback to Kirk in TWOK?

Given that Nero was inspired by Khan and the way Bana cranks it up, yeah, in that case it clearly was.

 

[Set Harth]

Your query was "is this a Mitt Romney 'corporations are people' thing?" which isn't about someone "ripping off" the work of another person.

In a way, that's the whole point. The "can a corporation rip itself off?" ploy neatly ignores the question of whether or not an individual in fact ripped off the work of another individual. Hence the Romney reference, which was meant to highlight the fact that I was talking about people as opposed to corporations. Your response merely ignored this implication and doubled down on the "let's talk about corporations" strategy.

Again, in answer to a question about companies ripping themselves off, you brought up Romney's quote. Those are the two statements I was responding to.

You actually had an entire thread at your disposal, not just two posts floating in some kind of void. Repeating someone else's strawman doesn't make it any less a strawman.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Your query was "is this a Mitt Romney 'corporations are people' thing?" which isn't about someone "ripping off" the work of another person.

In a way, that's the whole point. The "can a corporation rip itself off?" ploy neatly ignores the question of whether or not an individual in fact ripped off the work of another individual. Hence the Romney reference, which was meant to highlight the fact that I was talking about people as opposed to corporations. Your response merely ignored this implication and doubled down on the "let's talk about corporations" strategy.

No it does't as they are two different things.

I ignored nothing. I simply gave an answer to your question.

Again, in answer to a question about companies ripping themselves off, you brought up Romney's quote. Those are the two statements I was responding to.

You actually had an entire thread at your disposal, not just two posts floating in some kind of void. Repeating someone else's strawman doesn't make it any less a strawman.

I quoted the posts in question for a reason. That reason being I was focusing on them and their content. I assumed that by quoting Belz post you were doing the same.

Again, not a strawman, but a perfectly valid answer to your question.

 

[BillJ]

Let's just agree it was lazy and call it a day. Some love it, some hate it, everyone is happy or miserable.

"Everyone see things my way and we can move on!"

If a movie makes someone miserable, they probably need to take a step back and reevaluate their lives.

 

[MakeshiftPython]

You know I'm right.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Let's just agree it was lazy and call it a day.

I'm not agreeing to that at all. And I know that, if they hadn't used the "Khaaaaaaaaaan" line, we'd all be arguing now about the writers' so-obvious, cowardly, missed opportunity at an affectionate callback/homage to ST II.

 

[CorporalClegg]

That's not quite the same thing, though, is it?

Well the reason it was an issue is because it was really two corporations(record guys) fighting over one person.

Had "The Old Man Down The Road" been written/performed by someone like, say, Big Head Todd, I doubt it would have ever come up.

Admittedly, the analogy would have been more correct if the issue was Sowards or Meyer went on to do another space adventure not titled Star Trek and not for Paramount and had a similar scene.

But the point I was trying to make is the only reason people are up in arms about it is because of the direct correlation.

Star Trek neither holds monopolies on death scenes were the heroes are separated by a barrier of some kind (with or without the palm touching), nor scenes where the protagonist screams the antagonist's name in anguish.

 

[MakeshiftPython]

Let's just agree it was lazy and call it a day.

I'm not agreeing to that at all. And I know that, if they hadn't used the "Khaaaaaaaaaan" line, we'd all be arguing now about the writers' so-obvious, cowardly, missed opportunity at an affectionate callback/homage to ST II.

I was being tounge and cheek, but you know I am right.

 

[Therin of Andor]

I was being tounge and cheek, but you know I am right.

No, now I have no idea what you were trying to say.

(I believe the term is "tongue-in-cheek".)

 

[BillJ]

You know I'm right.

I think we should all just admit that Star Trek Into Darkness is a fun movie to watch. Everyone knows I'm right!

 

[MakeshiftPython]

I was being tounge and cheek, but you know I am right.

No, now I have no idea what you were trying to say.

(I believe the term is "tongue-in-cheek".)

Blame it on my "smart phone" spellshek.

 

[CorporalClegg]

I think we should all just admit that Star Trek Into Darkness is a fun movie to watch. Everyone knows I'm right!

 

[Ovation]

You know I'm right.

I think we should all just admit that Star Trek Into Darkness is a fun movie to watch. Everyone knows I'm right!

Is there some dispute about this?

 

[MakeshiftPython]

If only it were all fun. I do think the pre title sequence was fun. After that, no so much.

 

[Timewalker]

Let's just agree it was lazy and call it a day.

I'm not agreeing to that at all. And I know that, if they hadn't used the "Khaaaaaaaaaan" line, we'd all be arguing now about the writers' so-obvious, cowardly, missed opportunity at an affectionate callback/homage to ST II.

No, we wouldn't. Mind you, the writers probably would have had nuSpock say/do something equally stupid.

You know I'm right.

I think we should all just admit that Star Trek Into Darkness is a fun movie to watch. Everyone knows I'm right!

Speak for yourself. I had to force myself to watch it.