Wiped Episode Discoveries

[diankra]

The thing about Marco Polo is that there were solid rumours that something had been found back in October 2012. By July 2013 it had become Web, Enemy and Marco Polo, but with something that meant Web wasn't a definite deal, so whereas Enemy would be on DVD this year, and Marco would be run on BBC4 for the anniversary, they weren't sure what was going to happen to Web.
Well, the Web and Enemy bit of it was all true, assuming that the Web niggle was the absence of episode three. Which just leaves Marco Polo: either that bit was wrong even though the rest was right, or... it's back, but the restoration is running into problems, and nothing will be announced until they have something ready to release. I'm inclined to go for the latter, having dismissed the notion of an October/November release for Enemy of the World back in August/September 'cos I was too sceptical. Might be too optimistic now, but I hope not!

 

[Sindatur]

Yea, I'm willing to just be happy with Web and Enemy, and if anything else comes along, that's gravy.

Now, that the Anniversary has come and gone, I would think Doctor Who Focus will be on The Christmas Special and Capaldi as The Newest Doctor. So, even if, they have Marco Polo (or anything else) ready to go, I would expect them to want to save the news for a better "News Cycle" in January or beyond.

 

[Mr Awe]

During a panel at the official celebration, Deborah Watling told a funny story about how she was told by someone at the BBC about the recoveries long before it was made public. They told her specifically not to mention it to Frazer Hines because he'd let the secret slip. Of course, the first thing she did was to call Frazer up!

Mr Awe

 

[diankra]

And indeed, we are just past Black Friday and CyberMonday in the midst of the Christmas buying season, when BBC DVD have the Season VII and Day of the Doctor releases in the shops for the Christmas market... any release now would be lost in the Christmas buying frenzy.
Why not hold any other recoveries back until, oh, a week into January, when people have their first post-Christmas pay-cheque, and they might just top the iTunes charts while people are shaking off the January blues?

 

[Candlelight]

And indeed, we are just past Black Friday and CyberMonday in the midst of the Christmas buying season, when BBC DVD have the Season VII and Day of the Doctor releases in the shops for the Christmas market... any release now would be lost in the Christmas buying frenzy.
Why not hold any other recoveries back until, oh, a week into January, when people have their first post-Christmas pay-cheque, and they might just top the iTunes charts while people are shaking off the January blues?

Blues? You jokers in the northern hemisphere are funny.

 

[davejames]

Still seems odd to me that they wouldn't at least announce that "Yes we were able to find Marco Polo, but we still need more time to properly restore it. Stay tuned." Fans are going to be excited and buy this thing regardless, and in fact you'd probably build the anticipation up even higher by doing that.

Yeah yeah, I know. The BBC likes to do things their own way.

 

[The Borgified Corpse]

I just don't have the energy for any more hoping. My excitement is starting to be overwhelmed by my frustration at the frequent lies, disinformation, and nonsensical secrecy.

 

[Spocktapus]

Still seems odd to me that they wouldn't at least announce that "Yes we were able to find Marco Polo, but we still need more time to properly restore it. Stay tuned." Fans are going to be excited and buy this thing regardless, and in fact you'd probably build the anticipation up even higher by doing that.

Yeah yeah, I know. The BBC likes to do things their own way.

According to the rumors I've heard, the reason for this is that when the BBC announced the recovery of Galaxy 4 well in advance of its release on The Aztecs DVD, they didn't sell as many as had been hoped. As a result, The Enemy of the World and The Web of Fear were only announced at the same time they became available on iTunes, so as not to let the excitement die down. The time to expect another announcement is when Marco Polo is ready for release, and there is no other big Doctor Who news on the horizon to interfere with it.

At least, that's what I've heard. I'm not saying I necessarily believe it.

 

[Sindatur]

Still seems odd to me that they wouldn't at least announce that "Yes we were able to find Marco Polo, but we still need more time to properly restore it. Stay tuned." Fans are going to be excited and buy this thing regardless, and in fact you'd probably build the anticipation up even higher by doing that.

Yeah yeah, I know. The BBC likes to do things their own way.

According to the rumors I've heard, the reason for this is that when the BBC announced the recovery of Galaxy 4 well in advance of its release on The Aztecs DVD, they didn't sell as many as had been hoped. As a result, The Enemy of the World and The Web of Fear were only announced at the same time they became available on iTunes, so as not to let the excitement die down. The time to expect another announcement is when Marco Polo is ready for release, and there is no other big Doctor Who news on the horizon to interfere with it.

At least, that's what I've heard. I'm not saying I necessarily believe it.

Expecting great sales on The Aztecs, just for a single episode of Galaxy 4 was probably over expecting, but, it makes sense, that you don't want to create the hype before you are ready to announce a delivery date or actually deliver the Product. Just like with Movie Marketing, it's there is much marketing outside of a month before release, because hype dies too soon if you spend too much marketing before that.

 

[diankra]

Of course, Airlock wasn't released on The Aztecs special edition until almost 18 months after its recovery was announced, but which point it had, ah, leaked. Narrowly, at one year in, and widely within a few months after that. Of course it didn't sell as well as it might have done six months earlier.

 

[Spocktapus]

My take on it is that the release of a complete or nearly complete serial, and a highly sought-after one at that, a few months after an announcement of its recovery is not necessarily comparable to a single episode attached to a re-release of a historical more than a year after being announced, but I wouldn't blame the BBC for being cautious about it.

 

[Candlelight]

Of course, Airlock wasn't released on The Aztecs special edition until almost 18 months after its recovery was announced, but which point it had, ah, leaked. Narrowly, at one year in, and widely within a few months after that. Of course it didn't sell as well as it might have done six months earlier.

Just like The Underwater Menace 2 which is yet to get an official release date but has been online for over a year.

In fact I think I saw TUM2 before Air Lock!

 

[Lonemagpie]

According to the rumors I've heard, the reason for this is that when the BBC announced the recovery of Galaxy 4 well in advance of its release on The Aztecs DVD, they didn't sell as many as had been hoped.

Not least because so many people won't double-dip, and why should they? Lots of us who already bought The Aztecs on DVD aren't going to buy it again for an extra extra feature, even if it is a previously missing episode. Maybe if it had completed a story, sales would have picked up, but one episode...? nah.

 

[Mr Awe]

Expecting dramatic sales for the Aztecs with the recovered episode was a bit too optimistic. I'm a huge classic series fan but a lone episode isn't enough for me to double dip. Entire recovered stories (or mostly) is an entirely different thing.

I'm torn. Part of me thinks that the BBC should do whatever their marketing instincts say is best.

On the other hand, I've also got to think that any plan that keeps recovered episodes secret for so long, encourages lying among the finders, and allows fan rumors to run rampant, can't be a good thing either.

There is a middle ground. The BBC should be a little smarter in how they do things. Don't paint isolated finds and entire recovered stories with the same brush. Release some information to build up excitement and to keep fan expectations realistic. Don't let things lie dormant for sooo long. Etc.

Mr Awe

 

[Candlelight]

Expecting dramatic sales for the Aztecs with the recovered episode was a bit too optimistic. I'm a huge classic series fan but a lone episode isn't enough for me to double dip. Entire recovered stories (or mostly) is an entirely different thing.

I'm torn. Part of me thinks that the BBC should do whatever their marketing instincts say is best.

On the other hand, I've also got to think that any plan that keeps recovered episodes secret for so long, encourages lying among the finders, and allows fan rumors to run rampant, can't be a good thing either.

There is a middle ground. The BBC should be a little smarter in how they do things. Don't paint isolated finds and entire recovered stories with the same brush. Release some information to build up excitement and to keep fan expectations realistic. Don't let things lie dormant for sooo long. Etc.

Mr Awe

You're assuming "they" have a choice. What if the BBC were told 'you can have these back but you can't say anything until they're ready for release'?

They'd be bound by their own confidentiality agreement.

 

[Mr Awe]

There's no evidence either way as far as I know. But, yes, I'd assume that they have a choice. I'd also assume that if whoever recovered any additional stories had any monetary gain from it, they wouldn't want to force the BBC to shoot themselves in the foot. But, who knows. It'll be interesting if the truth ever comes out.

Mr Awe

 

[Brendan Moody]

Another interesting day on the missing episodes front. Doctor Who Archive, the site whose rumor roundups have been linked a couple times earlier in the thread, has an article drawing on e-mails from October released due to a Freedom of Information Act request made to the BFI. The important bit is that the author of the e-mails (some of which have been posted on DWA's Twitter) says that the BFI was "involved in this discovery [Enemy and Web]," but can't say so publicly until later in the year, "when a more extensive revelation of the finds is made." Does that mean an announcement of more Doctor Who, an announcement of non-Who material, or simply a fuller narrative of the Enemy/Web find? Nobody knows, though the article says, without an e-mail to back it up, "Despite some rumour last month, the BFI hold no missing episodes of Doctor Who."

DWA also plans another missing episode article for today, one that will apparently confirm or reveal something about the Cardiff production team's involvement in the recovery. It's also being reported that Moffat confirmed at an event the other day that he knew Web had been found when he was writing "The Snowmen" in summer 2012.

 

[Christopher]

I didn't know Britain had a Freedom of Information Act.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Interesting. Moffat knew for a considerable time which means two things: 1) The discoveries aren't recent (I'm not sure if that was firmly established or not prior to now); 2) In addition to all of the celebrative material for the anniversary, Moffat really meant it when he said "more Doctor Who than ever before" way back when he first promoted the anniversary year.

 

[Brendan Moody]

I didn't know Britain had a Freedom of Information Act.

It does. Strictly speaking the BFI isn't bound by it (though the BBC is, with certain exemptions), but as they're a type of organization it's meant to include, they comply with requests concerning public activities anyway.

The interesting thing about Moffat's comment (if it's real; I haven't seen a concrete source) is that the Restoration Team only received the episodes for restoration this summer. So there was a period of about a year where the episodes were known to exist but not in the possession of the BBC.