Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof should not Return.

[Sindatur]

We should simply say that Khan is Sikh, but is not practicing, or that he is but is not particularly committed to his religion. Many Sikhs, especially those who are part of the Sikh diaspora in the West, don't obey the Kesh for a variety of reasons, and Khan could simply be one of those. To get hung up on his lack of facial hair or a turban is to be rather pedantic in defending the decision to cast Benedict Cumberbatch in the role, when they should have made at least some minimal effort to cast an actor who resembled Ricardo Montalban, considering that, as others have pointed out, the two Khans are the same person.

It is all a problem resulting from this whole parallel timeline nonsense. Though I was opposed to the idea of "rebooting" Star Trek in the first place, they should have simply gone for a full reboot instead of half-assing it the way they have. Abrams, Orci, and the rest can't say they were concerned about the fans taking issue with the idea of a full reboot as since they took over control of the franchise they've made perfectly their disdain for those fans who would care about such a thing.

How much more effort should have been put into casting a Montalban look-alike? Cumberbatch has similar facial features, black hair, and white skin, and clean shaven. Are you suggesting he should have been given makeup to darken his skin as was done with Montalban in Space Seed, but, not in WoK?

And why, if the complaint is about being Indian or Sikh, would they possibly want Khan to have a thick Latin Accent?

Why is a light skinned Mexican Guy, born to Spanish parents, so much more believable as a Sikh or an Indian than a light skinned British Guy? The British have a long history with India, it is way, way more believable for a British guy to be an Indian then it is for a Mexican guy (especially with a thick Latin Accent). Mexico and Spain don't have anywhere near the relationship/history with India that Britain does.

 

[SeerSGB]

As I've said, I would've preferred that they'd cast an actor who resembles Ricardo Montalban, but it is not really that big a deal since it's easy for me to imagine they look alike as they should. I don't think people who complain about the character's whitewashing are really all that concerned with continuity in the same way that we are. Besides, it's not like Benedict Cumberbutch's appearance was the movie's biggest flaw...

It would have been their chance to actually cast an Indian actor.

And what if an Indian actor wasn't the right performer for the character? Not saying there aren't some good to great Indian actors, my point is: is getting the race of the character correct more paramount than getting the best performance regardless of race?

I think Cumberbatch did just fine with Khan. At least on par with Montalban's egotistical Khan from Space Seed and not as scene chewing as Montalban's TWOK Khan.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

No one doubted Khan Noonien Singh was a Sikh from India for decades, until some dudes messed it up.

Yeah, how dare Harve Bennett and Nicholas Meyer screw this up.

 

[JarodRussell]

No one doubted Khan Noonien Singh was a Sikh from India for decades, until some dudes messed it up.

Yeah, how dare Harve Bennett and Nicholas Meyer screw this up.

Except for they didn't. Nothing in TWOK violates that part of Space Seed, since Khan's origin is never of any interest to the story, and it's still the same actor. Continuity is intact there. Nobody went out of TWOK thinking "Why is Khan no Sikh anymore?" or "Why did they whitewash Khan?"

 

[BillJ]

Except for they didn't. Nothing in TWOK violates that part of Space Seed, since Khan's origin is never of any interest to the story, and it's still the same actor. Continuity is intact there. Nobody went out of TWOK thinking "Why is Khan no Sikh anymore?" or "Why did they whitewash Khan?"

We have no verifiable evidence that Khan was a Sikh. We have one historian who was obviously really shitty at her job claiming he was a Sikh. At first sight.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Except for they didn't. Nothing in TWOK violates that part of Space Seed, since Khan's origin is never of any interest to the story, and it's still the same actor. Continuity is intact there. Nobody went out of TWOK thinking "Why is Khan no Sikh anymore?" or "Why did they whitewash Khan?"

We have no verifiable evidence that Khan was a Sikh. We have one historian who was obviously really shitty at her job claiming he was a Sikh. At first sight.

The exact line was "Probably a Sikh." Even if Marla is 100% competent at her job in-universe, that's still no confirmation. She was only making an educated guess, in-universe.

 

[SeerSGB]

I'm still trying to figure out why whether he's Sikh or not is even important to any of the three Khan stories? Forget contunity/canon (which Trek has often done), is there a critical or needed story element related to his being Sikh?

Here's a question too: Could the studio have put uneasy casting a person of Middle Eastern heritage as a terrorist--especially one that was blowing up buildings in a major city?

 

[F. King Daniel]

No one doubted Khan Noonien Singh was a Sikh from India for decades, until some dudes messed it up.

Yeah, how dare Harve Bennett and Nicholas Meyer screw this up.

Except for they didn't. Nothing in TWOK violates that part of Space Seed, since Khan's origin is never of any interest to the story, and it's still the same actor. Continuity is intact there. Nobody went out of TWOK thinking "Why is Khan no Sikh anymore?" or "Why did they whitewash Khan?"

Without home video and the comparison shots that come so easily today, most probably never even realized they brown faced him in SS. They recognized the actor and vaguely remembered the old episode. If it were released today, Wrath of Khan would have been reamed (moreso than it was back then in Trek and Interstat)

 

[BillJ]

The exact line was "Probably a Sikh." Even if Marla is 100% competent at her job in-universe, that's still no confirmation. She was only making an educated guess, in-universe.

I was more talking about why many here hang their hats on him being a Sikh.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

I'm still trying to figure out why whether he's Sikh or not is even important to any of the three Khan stories? Forget contunity/canon (which Trek has often done), is there a critical or needed story element related to his being Sikh?

Here's a question too: Could the studio have put uneasy casting a person of Middle Eastern heritage as a terrorist--especially one that was blowing up buildings in a major city?

—not to mention as a person to be targeted by a drone strike and executed without trial.

 

[BillJ]

I'm still trying to figure out why whether he's Sikh or not is even important to any of the three Khan stories? Forget contunity/canon (which Trek has often done), is there a critical or needed story element related to his being Sikh?

Here's a question too: Could the studio have put uneasy casting a person of Middle Eastern heritage as a terrorist--especially one that was blowing up buildings in a major city?

—not to mention as a person to be targeted by a drone strike and executed without trial.

The above works under the assumption that the "Powers That Be" were working with some thought as to how their movie would be viewed by the public. No one here who dislikes Abrams and Company would ever admit that.

Dammit! I want a light-skinned Mexican actor wearing shoe polish on his face to play an Indian dictator! I will settle for nothing less!

 

[SeerSGB]

I'm still trying to figure out why whether he's Sikh or not is even important to any of the three Khan stories? Forget contunity/canon (which Trek has often done), is there a critical or needed story element related to his being Sikh?

Here's a question too: Could the studio have put uneasy casting a person of Middle Eastern heritage as a terrorist--especially one that was blowing up buildings in a major city?

—not to mention as a person to be targeted by a drone strike and executed without trial.

Yeeeup. I think all of that might make a studio's PR team a bit twitchy.

I'd love to see the memos and studio notes on this movie.

 

[Nerys Myk]

No one doubted Khan Noonien Singh was a Sikh from India for decades, until some dudes messed it up.

Yeah, how dare Harve Bennett and Nicholas Meyer screw this up.

Except for they didn't. Nothing in TWOK violates that part of Space Seed, since Khan's origin is never of any interest to the story, and it's still the same actor. Continuity is intact there. Nobody went out of TWOK thinking "Why is Khan no Sikh anymore?" or "Why did they whitewash Khan?"

I have to wonder how many people watching TWOK knew what a Sikh was in the first place or recalled Khan was called a Sikh in "Space Seed"? For that matter, I wonder how many people watching Space Seed in the 60s and 70s knew what a Sikh was?

The fact remains that the creators of "Space Seed" didn't really care what a Sikh was or make any real attempt to make Khan/Montalban into one. They just named dropped "Sikh" because someone heard they were Indian "warriors" and they wanted Khan to be from South Asia. By the time of TWOK, Khan Noonian Singh is only called "Khan." There is no "pretense" of him being an Indian or a Sikh, he's just Khan.

 

[Set Harth]

Why is a light skinned Mexican Guy, born to Spanish parents, so much more believable as a Sikh or an Indian than a light skinned British Guy?

Well, Khan is supposed to be exotic and foreign. Obviously it's not nearly complex or thoughtful enough for today's zeitgeist, but this was the 60s. From the white-centric POV of a predominantly white culture, you get the exotic factor by casting someone who is not white. Montalban qualifies despite naturally light skin coloration because as a Spaniard he's still "other than white" in the sense that Hispanic and (non-Hispanic) white are used as separate classifications. In other words being Hispanic is just different enough to be considered foreign by traditional WASP-centric standards. When it comes to the original Khan character, there was quite obviously no shortage of white guys on hand who could have played the part if they hadn't wanted him to be presented as a foreign prince. But now he's Whitey McWhiterson. That's why there's some dissonance.

 

[iguana_tonante]

Cumberbatch is British. That's foreign for me.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Cumberbatch is British. That's foreign for me.

You're Italian, that makes you "exotic" in America.

The iguana_tonante Story starring Ricardo Montalban

 

[Sindatur]

Why is a light skinned Mexican Guy, born to Spanish parents, so much more believable as a Sikh or an Indian than a light skinned British Guy?

Well, Khan is supposed to be exotic and foreign. Obviously it's not nearly complex or thoughtful enough for today's zeitgeist, but this was the 60s. From the white-centric POV of a predominantly white culture, you get the exotic factor by casting someone who is not white. Montalban qualifies despite naturally light skin coloration because as a Spaniard he's still "other than white" in the sense that Hispanic and (non-Hispanic) white are used as separate classifications. In other words being Hispanic is just different enough to be considered foreign by traditional WASP-centric standards. When it comes to the original Khan character, there was quite obviously no shortage of white guys on hand who could have played the part if they hadn't wanted him to be presented as a foreign prince. But now he's Whitey McWhiterson. That's why there's some dissonance.

Are you certain? I could swear Spaniards are not classed as Hispanics (That would be South Americans), Spaniards, I could swear are classed as Caucasians/White (If I remember correctly, you call an Italian or a Spaniard Hispanic and you end up with the same offense as when you call an Austrian German, which can come to blows?) Montalban would only be Hispanic by Country of Birth, not by Genetic Ethnicity, no?

At any rate, Montalban's Accent is further away from Indian than a British Accent is.

Also, Star Trek is an American Series and American Movie Series, therefore, A Brit is a Foreigner

 

[Nerys Myk]

Any Hispanic with European ancestry can white. IIRC, the U.S. Census Bureau calls any one from Spain or Latin America a "Hispanic". As of 2010, 50.5 million or 16.3% of Americans were ethnically Hispanic or Latino.[15] Of those, 26.7 million, or 53%, were White.

 

[M'Sharak]

Cumberbatch is British. That's foreign for me.

You're Italian, that makes you "exotic" in America.

The iguana_tonante Story starring Ricardo Montalban

Or... we could have iguana look at the camera and read this.

[screen test script consists of a single line: "My name is Khan."]​

 

[Commishsleer]

They should have made Khan a Sikh woman. Yeh!