Weather...

[Robert Maxwell]

Here's one: http://www.forbes.com/sites/peterfe...-the-obnoxious-fabrication-of-global-warming/

And I suspect I'm not wrong. When seemingly everyone jumps on the wagon of something as gospel and tries to shout down others asking questions I start doubting the validity of their claims.

The alarmists haven't proven a damn thing other than cooking up a way for some (like governments and businesses) to make money off the gullible. Carbon taxes and "green" products galore anyone?

Anyone remember Y2K as well as the certainty we were headed for another ice age?

Sorry, but the evidence for man-made climate change has only been increasing, not decreasing. It's piling up and our certainty is only growing. Basically, the time for doubt and debate is over. The science is clear. The only thing to decide is what to do about it.

Also, Y2K didn't unleash havoc precisely because a lot of companies spent a lot of money to avoid it.

 

[iguana_tonante]

And I suspect I'm not wrong.

You usually are.

When seemingly everyone jumps on the wagon of something as gospel and tries to shout down others asking questions I start doubting the validity of their claims.

You mean, like the Gospel?

 

[Awesome Possum]

Here's one: http://www.forbes.com/sites/peterfe...-the-obnoxious-fabrication-of-global-warming/

And I suspect I'm not wrong. When seemingly everyone jumps on the wagon of something as gospel and tries to shout down others asking questions I start doubting the validity of their claims.

The alarmists haven't proven a damn thing other than cooking up a way for some (like governments and businesses) to make money off the gullible. Carbon taxes and "green" products galore anyone?

Anyone remember Y2K as well as the certainty we were headed for another ice age?

Try harder. Forbes is not a scientific journal, an opinion article using a highly biased source also really doesn't count.

Also we avoided major issues with Y2K because a lot of people worked really hard to fix it. It's the absolute worst example you could have chosen, it's like saying the government can't accomplish something they said they want to do and then using the moon landing as an example.

 

[MacLeod]

Everybody seems willing to talk about the weather, but nobody seems willing to do anything about it.

Evidence is coming to light that a lot of the data from climatologists and others pushing human activity as the key cause of climate change was either misinterpreted or flat out fabricated. Have we had an effect? Possibly. Are we the main cause? Highly suspect.

Mars is also undergoing climate change. Are we responsible for that, too? Planets are susceptible to effects far beyond our influence such as the star they orbit and what part of the galaxy the solar system might be traversing.

And lets be candid here. No one is going to get the societies of our planet to bring everything to a grinding halt and turn back to an agrarian like existence. Ain't goinna happen.

There is a great deal about planetary climate we don't understand to realistically expect we could plunge headlong into trying to halt it. We might conceivably really mess it up. Also historical and other records show the Earth has gone through warming periods long before industrialization came along and some of those periods were warmer than what we're experiencing now. In a few hundred years we could experience another cycle of colder weather.

Have we had an impact more than possibly, probably.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-24292615


Now of course it would be foolish to rule out the possibility that it's just part of a natural cycle. But is it not better to err on the side of caution?

So two further questions

If the majority of climate scientists are wrong what will be the consequences?

If they are right and we don't act to try and minimise the impact we might be having what will the consequences be?

 

[Locutus of Bored]

Evidence is coming to light that a lot of the data from climatologists and others pushing human activity as the key cause of climate change was either misinterpreted or flat out fabricated. Have we had an effect? Possibly. Are we the main cause? Highly suspect.

Are you referring to the whole University of East Anglia email (non)scandal from a few years back? Because they were extensively investigated by several independent groups who could find no evidence that any wrongdoing had actually occurred:

Eight committees investigated the allegations and published reports, finding no evidence of fraud or scientific misconduct.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climatic_Research_Unit_email_controversy

Do you have links to all of this evidence from reputable sources in the field of climatology rather than scientists in non-related fields and/or who are on the payroll of energy corporations?
http://www.skepticalscience.com/OISM-Petition-Project.htm

Do they trump the 97% of climate scientists who agree that humans are the primary cause of climate change at present?
http://www.skepticalscience.com/global-warming-scientific-consensus.htm
http://www.skepticalscience.com/its-not-us.htm

Mars is also undergoing climate change. Are we responsible for that, too? Planets are susceptible to effects far beyond our influence such as the star they orbit and what part of the galaxy the solar system might be traversing.

It's amazing how skeptics can't even agree on climate change on Earth, but they can speak about it happening with great certainty on other planets.

There's no evidence of global warming on Mars:
http://www.skepticalscience.com/global-warming-on-mars.htm

Solar activity has been decreasing and the Sun has been cooling, while temperatures on Earth have been rising:

http://www.skepticalscience.com/solar-activity-sunspots-global-warming.htm
http://www.skepticalscience.com/solar-cycles-global-warming.htm
http://www.skepticalscience.com/acrim-pmod-sun-getting-hotter.htm

Galactic cosmic rays are actually increasing, which should have a cooling effect on Earth, but instead we have record temperatures:

http://www.skepticalscience.com/cosmic-rays-and-global-warming.htm

And lets be candid here. No one is going to get the societies of our planet to bring everything to a grinding halt and turn back to an agrarian like existence. Ain't goinna happen.

So, because it's hard we should do nothing while we get hit with increasingly powerful and more frequent storms, while poorer regions face famine, desertification, and water shortages, and international conflicts increase as people battle for dwindling space, arable land, and drinkable water?

I don't recall very many scientists suggesting that we abandon all the trappings of our modern society and return to a simple agrarian existence. That's an extreme and alarmist argument. The actual suggestions are far more reasonable:
http://www.skepticalscience.com/global-warming-too-hard.htm

There is a great deal about planetary climate we don't understand to realistically expect we could plunge headlong into trying to halt it. We might conceivably really mess it up.

If political obstructionists and corporate sellouts continue to place greed and ignorance above responsibility to their fellow man things will most certainly continue to get worse, so how is doing nothing because "something bad might happen" (how exactly would that work from decreasing greenhouse gasses?) a preferable alternative?

Also historical and other records show the Earth has gone through warming periods long before industrialization came along and some of those periods were warmer than what we're experiencing now. In a few hundred years we could experience another cycle of colder weather.

No:
http://www.skepticalscience.com/global-warming-natural-cycle.htm

No:
http://www.skepticalscience.com/1500-year-natural-cycle.htm

No:
http://www.skepticalscience.com/medieval-warm-period.htm

No:
http://www.skepticalscience.com/climate-change-little-ice-age-medieval-warm-period.htm

No:
http://www.skepticalscience.com/future-global-cooling.htm


By the way, nice Face-Heel Turn on this previously innocuous subject. Very subtle. I'm surprised you didn't connect climate change to the War on Christmas while you were at it (Evil scientists are trying to take my beloved snow!). It's about time for your annual thread, after all.

 

[M'Sharak]

Here's one: http://www.forbes.com/sites/peterfe...-the-obnoxious-fabrication-of-global-warming/

And I suspect I'm not wrong. When seemingly everyone jumps on the wagon of something as gospel and tries to shout down others asking questions I start doubting the validity of the claims.

The alarmists haven't proven a damn thing other than cooking up a way for some (like governments and businesses) to make money off the gullible. Carbon taxes anyone and "green" products galore?

Anyone remember Y2K as well as the certainty we were headed for another ice age?

That is an op/ed from a business finance magazine, in which a man cites his information as being from the Heartland Institute, a conservative think tank. Surely you have more evidence than what amounts to a political blog post, because having read the article and checked their sources, they have no data to support their position. It is all presumption, not science. Please cite scientific sources, not political ones, please.

He's more than citing information from the Heartland Institute, he's part of that institution, along with other organizations having a vested interest (often economic) in promoting a particular point of view.

From the sidebar on the Forbes opinion piece linked above:

Peter Ferrara
Contributor


I am Director of Entitlement and Budget Policy for the Heartland Institute, Senior Advisor for Entitlement Reform and Budget Policy at the National Tax Limitation Foundation, General Counsel for the American Civil Rights Union, and Senior Fellow at the National Center for Policy Analysis. I served in the White House Office of Policy Development under President Reagan, and as Associate Deputy Attorney General of the United States under President George H.W. Bush. I am a graduate of Harvard College and Harvard Law School, and the author most recently of America's Ticking Bankruptcy Bomb (New York: Harper Collins, 2011). I write about new, cutting edge ideas regarding public policy, particularly concerning economics.

http://ballotpedia.org/National_Tax_Limitation_Foundation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Civil_Rights_Union
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Center_for_Policy_Analysis
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Ferrara

He's hardly an unbiased commentator.

 

[Warped9]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...uters-got-effects-greenhouse-gases-wrong.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/en...dmit-global-warming-forecasts-were-wrong.html

http://www.climatedepot.com/2013/09...t-behind-closed-doors-climate-depot-round-up/

It all boils down to the forecasts not being what they were claimed would be. The planet has not been warming to the extent claimed or is supposed to be happening. And even inspite of admitting their assessments were flawed they continue to assert humanity as the cause.

And paleoclimatology records show the Earth has at times been warmer in the past than it is now, long before industrialization.

 

[MacLeod]

Well there is the 2013 IPCC report, linked to via the BBC webpage I posted earlier

http://www.ipcc.ch/report/ar5/wg1/#.Uov78Cea-Fx


Though I don't think the report is final just yet.

 

[Awesome Possum]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...uters-got-effects-greenhouse-gases-wrong.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/en...dmit-global-warming-forecasts-were-wrong.html

http://www.climatedepot.com/2013/09...t-behind-closed-doors-climate-depot-round-up/

It all boils down to the forecasts not being what they were claimed would be. The planet has not been warming to the extent claimed or is supposed to be happening. And even inspite of admitting their assessments were flawed they continue to assert humanity as the cause.

And paleoclimatology records show the Earth has at times been warmer in the past than it is now, long before industrialization.

Umm no.

You included the Daily Mail aka the Daily Fail, a news source that has an accuracy level below the Weekly World News and two sources that use the Daily Mail as their only source.

I'd rather wait till the actual report is released and not go by the claims of the Daily Mail.

 

[MacLeod]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...uters-got-effects-greenhouse-gases-wrong.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/en...dmit-global-warming-forecasts-were-wrong.html

http://www.climatedepot.com/2013/09...t-behind-closed-doors-climate-depot-round-up/

It all boils down to the forecasts not being what they were claimed would be. The planet has not been warming to the extent claimed or is supposed to be happening. And even inspite of admitting their assessments were flawed they continue to assert humanity as the cause.

And paleoclimatology records show the Earth has at times been warmer in the past than it is now, long before industrialization.

One of the paragraphs from the telegraph article

The “summary for policymakers” of the report, seen by the Mail on Sunday, states that the world is warming at a rate of 0.12C per decade since 1951, compared to a prediction of 0.13C per decade in their last assessment published in 2007.

So they made an error of 0.01C, that might still be within the toleranceof what they were expecting.

 

[BillJ]

There's no way six billion humans aren't having an effect on the climate. You think that would just be common sense?

 

[CorporalCaptain]

There's no way six billion humans aren't having an effect on the climate. You think that would just be common sense?

Seven billion.

 

[Amaris]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...uters-got-effects-greenhouse-gases-wrong.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/en...dmit-global-warming-forecasts-were-wrong.html

http://www.climatedepot.com/2013/09...t-behind-closed-doors-climate-depot-round-up/

It all boils down to the forecasts not being what they were claimed would be. The planet has not been warming to the extent claimed or is supposed to be happening. And even inspite of admitting their assessments were flawed they continue to assert humanity as the cause.

And paleoclimatology records show the Earth has at times been warmer in the past than it is now, long before industrialization.

Why aren't any of your sources scientific? They're all political and op/ed. Those are not acceptable. Just as I don't get professional health advice from my banker, I do not accept political and ideological sources as scientific evidence.

 

[Awesome Possum]

We ask a plumber for his advice on fixing a car while we're at it.

 

[Davros]

Everybody seems willing to talk about the weather, but nobody seems willing to do anything about it.

The weather is a fairly neutral topic so can serve as a friendly way to initate conversation.

I believe Davros may have been paraphrasing an observation frequently attributed to Mark Twain.

And you would be right. I never thought it would drag the thread into climate change denial nonsense.

 

[Awesome Possum]

This is why we can't have nice things.

 

[Davros]

Here's one: http://www.forbes.com/sites/peterfe...-the-obnoxious-fabrication-of-global-warming/

And I suspect I'm not wrong. When seemingly everyone jumps on the wagon of something as gospel and tries to shout down others asking questions I start doubting the validity of their claims.

We are jumping on the climate change bandwagon much like we jump on the earth is round bandwagon.

 

[BillJ]

We are jumping on the climate change bandwagon much like we jump on the earth is round bandwagon.

Round? You're such an easy mark for the liberal media.

 

[Amaris]

We are jumping on the climate change bandwagon much like we jump on the earth is round bandwagon.

Round? You're such an easy mark for the liberal media.

Everyone can see that the earth is flat. If it's so round, why aren't people in Australia falling off the earth? You can't explain that!

 

[Davros]

We are jumping on the climate change bandwagon much like we jump on the earth is round bandwagon.

Round? You're such an easy mark for the liberal media.

Everyone can see that the earth is flat. If it's so round, why aren't people in Australia falling off the earth? You can't explain that!

It's round but hollow, and we're on the inside.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollow_Earth_theory