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The Night Of The Doctor

^ Yeah, mine is too, although the 25th is day after it's supposed to air. I can either wait a day to see it or see it a second time in theater. I'm not sure which is the best choice.

One practical question -- who would write and produce a McGann special/series? Moffat is already spread thin between Doctor Who and Sherlock. Perhaps he would be a titular Executive Producer while another production team does the actual heavy lifting, not unlike the way the first two seasons of Torchwood were done.

I took it as a given that it would have to be a different crew. Although that's part of the reason I suggested another movie/TV special. That way you would really only need one or two writers rather than a whole team.
 
^ Yeah, mine is too, although the 25th is day after it's supposed to air. I can either wait a day to see it or see it a second time in theater. I'm not sure which is the best choice.

I was going to miss it on TV anyway because I'll be out of town that day, so waiting and seeing it in the theater is perfect for me!
 
I know that a lot of people have already said it but I'll say it again. Wow! I think this is the best mini episode. I like that we only see by a reflection that the war Doctor is young and they didn't go for some naff cgi to change Hurt's appearance.
It's a shame the 8t Doctor will never have a full tv series but I liked the radio ep I've heard.
 
But different Doctors aren't the same character.

I know that. But what would be different? One show would be about the Doctor, traveling in time, helping where he could, and the other would be...exactly the same thing. Same character running around in the same TARDIS, except earlier.

What makes Elementary different from Sherlock? What makes one police procedural or family sitcom different from the dozens of others with the exact same format? Most viewers watch some shows and skip others more on the basis of the actors and characters they like than the stories or premises which are often interchangeable. (Heck, sometimes literally interchangeable. In '60s and '70s TV, it wasn't uncommon for writers to recycle the same script for different shows, just changing the character names.) Paul McGann is a very different actor from Peter Capaldi, with a different style and personality. And whoever became his companion would be a distinct performer from Clara or whoever followed her.

That's what's so great about the format of Doctor Who. Yes, the premise is relatively fixed, but that just lets it serve as a fairly neutral backdrop against which the different actors who play the Doctor can establish their distinct personas and styles. All the Doctors have been skilled character actors with strong presences and screen personas, and it's the differences between the actors themselves that make each era distinct and keep the whole franchise fresh.



And are those shows run by the same company? Would BBC be interested in doing Sherlock and another Sherlock, but younger? Simultaneously?

Nobody said anything about "simultaneously." There are enough gaps in the DW broadcast schedule that having the occasional movie or miniseries to fill in the downtime might be worthwhile.


I'd like to see more McGann, too, but not another whole series running in parallel to the current show.

Which, again, is something I don't think anyone has actually proposed.


I wonder what he thinks of McGann, playing the Doctor in a full BBC production, saying he's a Time Lord and ignoring the half-human thing...

For what it's worth (I just watched the movie), I think it's likely that the half-human thing is limited strictly to the Eighth Doctor (hence the Master's seeming surprise when he recognized this).

Weirdly enough, though, it seemed like it was supposed to be a plot point for opening the Eye of Harmony (only humans seemed able), but the Doctor never tried to open it (or close it, that happened automatically). So it never really mattered. I suppose one could argue that the Master was mistaken and the Doctor was joking (which I think he was for the "on my mother's side" part), but it really doesn't affect anything either way.

Here's the thing: In that scene, the Doctor was about to confide something to Grace and insisted that she keep it secret. Then they were interrupted by a total stranger, and the Doctor told him "I'm half human on my mother's side." If that was the same thing he'd sworn Grace to secrecy about, why would he then have blurted it out to a stranger moments later? It sounds more likely that he was just joking.

True, the Master did see a human retina pattern in the Doctor's eye, but maybe that was something else going on, a security measure he'd put in place to protect the Eye from being opened by errant Time Lords or something.
 
It doesn't really matter what McGann's character said about supposedly having a human side, because he may simply have been joking. Moreover, as we've come to learn over the years: The Doctor Sometimes Lies.
 
Here's the thing: In that scene, the Doctor was about to confide something to Grace and insisted that she keep it secret. Then they were interrupted by a total stranger, and the Doctor told him "I'm half human on my mother's side." If that was the same thing he'd sworn Grace to secrecy about, why would he then have blurted it out to a stranger moments later? It sounds more likely that he was just joking.

True, the Master did see a human retina pattern in the Doctor's eye, but maybe that was something else going on, a security measure he'd put in place to protect the Eye from being opened by errant Time Lords or something.

Yeah, I was talking about the retina thing. The half-human on my mother's side thing has too many unknowns to be at all useful. I could see security measure (a half-human eye), but I could also see any traces of human DNA in the 8th Doctor just being a product of the botched regeneration. It doesn't really change anything and there's certainly nothing (except the exact phrase "mother's side") to suggest that any other Doctor was half-human (maybe the duplicate 10th, I can't really remember).
 
They won't run two Doctor series concurrently, mainly because, what if the public likes the 8th Doctor s series better than the 12th
 
But what about these infuriatingly long gaps between seasons that we have now? If you had a second series with a different group of writers, they could pump out a couple miniseries to help tide us over. I think I would really enjoy something like that.
 
What makes Elementary different from Sherlock? What makes one police procedural or family sitcom different from the dozens of others with the exact same format?

Let's see what makes them different - different actors, different writers, different producers, different settings, and the fact that the stories are about different characters. I don't think the various Doctors are sufficiently different from each other to constitute different characters. Maybe the War Doctor is radically different, but the rest of the incarnations are all basically the same man. Even if I accepted the premise that the various incarnations are essentially different characters, I'd still have to point out that premise would have to be somewhat different, wouldn't it? Police procedurals, hospital dramas, sitcoms are all generic, but a time-traveling alien with two hearts running around having adventures in the universe while poorly piloting a dimensionally-transcendent blue box is pretty specific, don't you think? Wouldn't something new, something different, have to be added to the premise to make it distinguishable from the original Doctor Who? Even relatively similar police dramas make an effort to distinguish themselves from each other a little bit, by focusing on different types of crime, or different methods for solving crimes.

Nobody said anything about "simultaneously." There are enough gaps in the DW broadcast schedule that having the occasional movie or miniseries to fill in the downtime might be worthwhile.

That's not been my impression. My impression is that fans want a whole new series (not specials, not one-offs, not webcast mini-episodes) starring McGann right now, while Capaldi is playing the Doctor, too. There's always someone out there who wants something unrealistic and untenable. I've just been trying to point out that production companies don't tend to make the same show about the same character doing the same thing twice, either in parallel to the main show or in alternating production periods. If that's not the case, then I'll acknowledge I was wrong, and enjoy the next McGann outing as much as anyone.
 
They won't run two Doctor series concurrently, mainly because, what if the public likes the 8th Doctor's series better than the 12th

That's certainly a concern, but that often happens with spin-offs. More people watched SVU than the original Law & Order, for instance. CSI: Miami was the best-rated series in the franchise.

But I think that doesn't matter, as I doubt the BBC would want an eighth Doctor series anyway. Two fiftysomething Doctors, each carrying their own series? No, I don't see that happening.

I wonder if Matt Smith's "two Doctors series" could work -- Capaldi and McGann splitting a season between them. Not for series 8 -- let Capaldi get established first before breaking the format -- but for series 9 in 2015 that might be really cool. And get fans prepped with an eighth Doctor special in early 2015. Yeah, that might work. That might work really well.
 
One practical question -- who would write and produce a McGann special/series? Moffat is already spread thin between Doctor Who and Sherlock. Perhaps he would be a titular Executive Producer while another production team does the actual heavy lifting, not unlike the way the first two seasons of Torchwood were done.
Give it to whoever is lined up to take over. Surely they have someone in mind by now.
 
Whether or not they do anything further with McGann I can't see it happening until after Capaldi is properly "Bedded in" as the new Doctor. It's not really fair on him to have an old incarnation flitting about in onscreen adventures during that often tricky transition period.

Plus I can't see the man himself being up for more than the odd guest appearance and maybe more minisodes, the press attention that comes with such a high profile role in a series or run of TV films just isn't something he wants (the brief taste of it he got as a result of the original movie really seems to have put him off the whole idea of "Fame").
 
What makes Elementary different from Sherlock? What makes one police procedural or family sitcom different from the dozens of others with the exact same format?

Let's see what makes them different - different actors, different writers, different producers, different settings, and the fact that the stories are about different characters.

Elementary and Sherlock are both about the characters of Sherlock Holmes and Dr. Watson, but they are differing interpretations of the characters due to differing actors, writers, and producers. The same goes for different incarnations of the Doctor. There's no reason the series we're talking about would have to have the same writer and producers as the mainstream DW; indeed, I've already expressed my opinion that it shouldn't.


I don't think the various Doctors are sufficiently different from each other to constitute different characters.

I have to wonder if you've ever seen the original series, then. The past three Doctors have all been pretty similar, but as I believe I already said, the first eight were hugely different from one another.


Maybe the War Doctor is radically different, but the rest of the incarnations are all basically the same man.

Fictionally, they're the same man. But they're realized by different actors who bring themselves to the role. Again, the problem is that you're focused on the story and the in-universe premise of who the character is, but most people watch TV for the actors. Plenty of people over the decades have had a favorite Doctor and haven't been interested in the others. Because ultimately they're watching for the actor more than for the character or the concept.


Even if I accepted the premise that the various incarnations are essentially different characters, I'd still have to point out that premise would have to be somewhat different, wouldn't it?

Sure, why couldn't it be? The Third Doctor's era was quite distinct from any other, because he spent most of it exiled to Earth, retooled as a Quatermass-type "scientific advisor" protagonist. Eccleston's era was also pretty distinct for similar reasons; even though the Doctor and Rose were theoretically free to go anywhere, they still spent most of their time on Earth in the present, near past, or near future.

So nothing's stopping them from adjusting the premise. Indeed, we've already got the hint of what the premise could be: stories set during the Time War, a period we haven't seen depicted before, with the Doctor helping where he can while trying to stay out of the fighting.


Police procedurals, hospital dramas, sitcoms are all generic, but a time-traveling alien with two hearts running around having adventures in the universe while poorly piloting a dimensionally-transcendent blue box is pretty specific, don't you think?

Doctor Who has been around for 50 years, had over 35 seasons on the air, and has had eleven lead actors, multiple producers, and varying formats. I'd say it practically constitutes a subgenre unto itself.

(Not to mention that many of the details you mention are not universal across DW. He wasn't clearly established as an alien until his second incarnation, wasn't revealed to have two hearts until his third, was confined to Earth for most of his third, and his ability to pilot the TARDIS progressively improved to the point that his sixth through eighth incarnations could almost always navigate perfectly, though the modern series has gone back to giving him the occasional navigational error.)



Wouldn't something new, something different, have to be added to the premise to make it distinguishable from the original Doctor Who?

I'm sorry, I have to laugh at that. The modern series is already hugely different from the original incarnation. In the original Doctor Who, the primary heroes were a pair of human schoolteachers lost in space and time with a teenager from the future and her eccentric grandfather who had great wisdom but tended to get them into trouble, and they had adventures designed to teach children about science and history. Then it became a series about a clownish cosmic tramp wandering the universe with good-looking young companions, running from all sorts of dangers Scooby-Doo-style but then outsmarting them and taking advantage of how much they underestimated him. Then it became a series about a swashbuckling scientific advisor working with the military to protect present-day Earth from alien invasions. Then it became a succession of Gothic horror stories whose protagonist was a Bohemian eccentric, and then it became a more farcical comedy-adventure with a broader version of the same lead, and then it became an ensemble drama where a more insecure and vulnerable hero traveled with a mismatched family of young people who kept getting him into trouble in one way or another... and so on.

So the idea that Doctor Who has ever had a single, unvarying identity is completely ludicrous. Like the Doctor himself, it would never have survived as long as it has without the ability to reinvent itself.


That's not been my impression. My impression is that fans want a whole new series (not specials, not one-offs, not webcast mini-episodes) starring McGann right now, while Capaldi is playing the Doctor, too.

Go back through this thread, please, and quote me a post where someone expresses that specific desire. The cool thing about BBS threads is that you don't have to rely on "impression" and memory -- you can click back through the pages and reread what people actually wrote.
 
It just shows that people are gasping for more of McGann. And if you ask me, the production and writing of Night of the Doctor was much better than a lot of Smith episodes.

But yeah, here's hoping for another short at least. It would be nice to see him facing off against the Daleks at least, as he's the only doctor not to have faced off against them.

Oh yeah, and I know I'm beginning to stray off topic, but I made a new McGann microhero.........yay!
8th_doctor__night_of_the_doctor__by_valeyard_parallax-d6ud0ow.png
Pretty sure he did face them. In fact, I'd be willing to bet he faced them more than any other Doctor.

Just ask Lucie. ;)

PS: Really cool pic up there. :D

Not on screen he aint. Just in audios. SO while in canon he's faced them, on screen he's only mentioned the Daleks.

PS: Thanks! :)
 
Elementary and Sherlock are both about the characters of Sherlock Holmes and Dr. Watson, but they are differing interpretations of the characters due to differing actors, writers, and producers. The same goes for different incarnations of the Doctor. There's no reason the series we're talking about would have to have the same writer and producers as the mainstream DW; indeed, I've already expressed my opinion that it shouldn't.

But they're not on the same network, about the same character at different ages. Even when Young Indiana Jones was on the air, they had two different actors playing Indy at different ages, but they didn't make two different shows about young Indy, did they? That's exactly what an Eighth Doctor series would be, wouldn't it?

I have to wonder if you've ever seen the original series, then. The past three Doctors have all been pretty similar, but as I believe I already said, the first eight were hugely different from one another.

So your view is that if someone doesn't agree with you, then they must be uninformed? Really? You could at least ask whether I've seen the old DW before assuming I'm less informed than you are. :rolleyes: I've seen every incarnation of the Doctor in action, and I'm well aware of the differences between them, but I'm more aware of the overwhelming similarities.


Again, the problem is that you're focused on the story and the in-universe premise of who the character is, but most people watch TV for the actors. Plenty of people over the decades have had a favorite Doctor and haven't been interested in the others. Because ultimately they're watching for the actor more than for the character or the concept.

Really? I've never heard that before. Watching a show for the actor, rather than the premise. Weird. Well, I don't do it. I don't see why I would ever want to do it. If the premise isn't interesting, what's the point of watching? Is that why some people say they could watch their favorite actor read a phone book and be entranced?

So nothing's stopping them from adjusting the premise. Indeed, we've already got the hint of what the premise could be: stories set during the Time War, a period we haven't seen depicted before, with the Doctor helping where he can while trying to stay out of the fighting.

But isn't that what the Doctor does now? Would an Eighth Doctor show be about him organizing scrap metal drives? Encouraging the purchasing of war bonds? Driving an ambulance behind the front lines?



I'm sorry, I have to laugh at that. The modern series is already hugely different from the original incarnation. snip

An alien and companion(s) having adventures in time and space. That's the premise. The rest is detail. An Eighth Doctor only show would be for the fans only. If they're not watching DW already, why would new people want to watch McGann's Doctor? Just because they're McGann fans? Would that motivate the BBC to produce an parallel show, or specials, featuring the Eighth Doctor?

So the idea that Doctor Who has ever had a single, unvarying identity is completely ludicrous.

Only to fans who make the fine distinctions between the Doctors. :shrug: But I guess only superfans count?


Go back through this thread, please, and quote me a post where someone expresses that specific desire.

Goodness, wherever would I have gotten the impression that people wanted a series specifically starring McGann as the Eighth Doctor?

Let's see

In the back of my mind, the BBC may have just either knowingly or unknowingly given themselves a NuWho 'Mini-Series' or slate of 'Prequel Specials' featuring the 8th Doctor, Mr. Paul McGann...

Would that be too wonky for some people to see concurrent or interspersed series featuring both the 8th & 12th Doctors?

I for one would watch both and not bat an eye at all.

I want more. That's where I think a Prequel series would work.

Amazingly cool, and I would be so there for a series of 8th Doctor

Would the Beeb ever fund something like a web series though..

Nope, must've been my imagination. :rolleyes:
 
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I think they could probably use the Time War setting to set apart McGann stories which could have a darker more desperate setting than the prime Doctor stories. It would be nice for some of those big gaps as mentioned or maybe in lieu of a Doctor-lite story.
 
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