is the matrix reloded worth watching
- Thread starter tmosler
- Start date
This.
I think Reloaded's got a whole bunch of cool action sequences. And more importantly, they actually take place in the Matrix itself, which allows for a lot of the same kind of fun and creative action as in the first movie.
Among it's (many) other problems, Revolutions mainly takes place in the dreary and boring "real world", which makes it feel too much like just another generic scifi action flick.
In the end though, you're probably better off not watching either one. I used to love the hell out of the first movie and watch it constantly, but now, knowing how it all ends up, the concept and characters have just lost their "cool factor" entirely, and I have a hard time getting excited about ANY of it.
Among it's (many) other problems, Revolutions mainly takes place in the dreary and boring "real world", which makes it feel too much like just another generic scifi action flick.
In the end though, you're probably better off not watching either one. I used to love the hell out of the first movie and watch it constantly, but now, knowing how it all ends up, the concept and characters have just lost their "cool factor" entirely, and I have a hard time getting excited about ANY of it.
I'm not going to spoiler code this whole thing in bits and pieces, but just be forewarned that there are some spoilers about the overall premise of the second and third Matrix films, so skip it if you don't want to know.
While that is all true, the first film also established the premise of the real world within the Matrix being an illusion, a layer of control by the Machines. So it naturally begs us to question the real world in whatever form it's presented.
It also tells us that the first Matrix was a paradise, a Garden of Eden where no one suffered, but that conflict-driven humans could not accept that reality as being true, so they had to create a more realistic "real world" modeled after our own at the turn of the 21st century full of all the war, injustice, crime, poverty, and disease we expect to encounter in our modern world.
But even with all that, there are still human being who just can't accept this reality and struggle to awaken from it. So, following the progression from Garden of Eden >>> Modern Day Flawed World, where do you as the Machines go from there with the people that won't even accept that flawed world as real? You create an even more jacked up Scorched Earth where humans are living underground on the brink of extinction and are constantly at a state of war with their Machine overlords. You don't even deny your existence as Machine antagonists, you make it part of the "story." And they buy it, hook, line, and sinker.
Reloaded seemed to build on this premise at the end by having Neo manifest powers in the "real" world and having Smith be able to enter that world. It made you go "woah!" and question all that you had accepted as true and real again. Do Zion and the real world exist at all, or are they just another construct of the Machines meant to control the people who couldn't handle even the 21st century reality?
I also never fully bought the whole "If you die in The Matrix, your mind makes you die in reality" thing, despite it being a frequent trope of dream/VR movies (with the notable exception of Inception, which found a more interesting way to deal with you dying within a dream), so having the real world also be another layer of the Matrix makes that even more believable.
The second movie also introduced the idea that our mythical creatures and concepts like gods (the Architect), psychics (the Oracle), shapeshifters (the Agents), angels (Seraph), ghosts (the albino rasta twins), vampires and/or werewolves (the Merovingian's thugs), were simply errant programs or constructs of the Machines meant to further control us. So it makes us question the mythologies of our real world too.
The third movie just says, no, screw all your theorizing, Neo just has superpowers in the real world and the Agent computer programs can just take over your mind in the real world if they get a little Keanu digital DNA in them; deal with it. There's nothing more to it. None of that progressive buildup and layering and questioning reality implied by the first two movies meant anything. Everything was just straightforward and there was no twist coming.
I guess you could argue that it was bucking trends by going the other way, since "the real world is only another layer of control" trope was already touched on in the similarly themed Dark City and The 13th Floor around the same time. The recent sequel/reboot of Tron also seems to imply that's a possibility, what with not only humans being able to transfer in and out of digital worlds but also computer programs being able to take on material form in the "real" world. Maybe our "god(s)" are simply higher form "users" and we're all digital creations of them. It remains to be seen if that will be followed up on or dropped Matrix-style if and when they make another sequel.
While that is all true, the first film also established the premise of the real world within the Matrix being an illusion, a layer of control by the Machines. So it naturally begs us to question the real world in whatever form it's presented.
It also tells us that the first Matrix was a paradise, a Garden of Eden where no one suffered, but that conflict-driven humans could not accept that reality as being true, so they had to create a more realistic "real world" modeled after our own at the turn of the 21st century full of all the war, injustice, crime, poverty, and disease we expect to encounter in our modern world.
But even with all that, there are still human being who just can't accept this reality and struggle to awaken from it. So, following the progression from Garden of Eden >>> Modern Day Flawed World, where do you as the Machines go from there with the people that won't even accept that flawed world as real? You create an even more jacked up Scorched Earth where humans are living underground on the brink of extinction and are constantly at a state of war with their Machine overlords. You don't even deny your existence as Machine antagonists, you make it part of the "story." And they buy it, hook, line, and sinker.
Reloaded seemed to build on this premise at the end by having Neo manifest powers in the "real" world and having Smith be able to enter that world. It made you go "woah!" and question all that you had accepted as true and real again. Do Zion and the real world exist at all, or are they just another construct of the Machines meant to control the people who couldn't handle even the 21st century reality?
I also never fully bought the whole "If you die in The Matrix, your mind makes you die in reality" thing, despite it being a frequent trope of dream/VR movies (with the notable exception of Inception, which found a more interesting way to deal with you dying within a dream), so having the real world also be another layer of the Matrix makes that even more believable.
The second movie also introduced the idea that our mythical creatures and concepts like gods (the Architect), psychics (the Oracle), shapeshifters (the Agents), angels (Seraph), ghosts (the albino rasta twins), vampires and/or werewolves (the Merovingian's thugs), were simply errant programs or constructs of the Machines meant to further control us. So it makes us question the mythologies of our real world too.
The third movie just says, no, screw all your theorizing, Neo just has superpowers in the real world and the Agent computer programs can just take over your mind in the real world if they get a little Keanu digital DNA in them; deal with it. There's nothing more to it. None of that progressive buildup and layering and questioning reality implied by the first two movies meant anything. Everything was just straightforward and there was no twist coming.
I guess you could argue that it was bucking trends by going the other way, since "the real world is only another layer of control" trope was already touched on in the similarly themed Dark City and The 13th Floor around the same time. The recent sequel/reboot of Tron also seems to imply that's a possibility, what with not only humans being able to transfer in and out of digital worlds but also computer programs being able to take on material form in the "real" world. Maybe our "god(s)" are simply higher form "users" and we're all digital creations of them. It remains to be seen if that will be followed up on or dropped Matrix-style if and when they make another sequel.
I liked the second film more than either of the other ones. It at least tried to answer what was my main objection to the first - the idea that Morpheus and his crew were forcibly waking people up from the Matrix whether they wanted it or not, and that their ultimate goal was to completely destroy the Matrix. At least the later films established that the Matrix might continue to exist and that those who willingly chose to live in it could do so.
That being said, the animated "Second Renaissance" was worse than any of the three live action films. Especially the ending. My God, how brutal could they possibly get?
That being said, the animated "Second Renaissance" was worse than any of the three live action films. Especially the ending. My God, how brutal could they possibly get?
^ We still need spoiler tags? Those films have been out for 10 years plus. Anyone who hasn't seen them yet...well they should regard the thread title as spoilery enough, after all this time.
The original poster hadn't seen the sequels. He's asking for advice about whether or not to watch them. By definition, the title isn't spoilery. It should have been obvious he hasn't seen them regardless of how long they've been out.
Anyway, it's hard to watch the second without the third, the two go together far more than the first (which is a self-contained story). Because of this, I think you have to decide to watch both or not at all. I agree with the view that the second is better than the third, but both have some good action scenes. I found the conclusion of the trilogy less satisfying than the conclusion of the first movie, so it might be worth just sticking with the first. On the other hand, they're at least watchable and I don't believe that the sequels inherently ruin the first movie.
Exactly what I was going to write.
At times, it looked like they were breaking out into song and dance.
Hmm, I'll put the rest under code again as it does touch on spoilers.
Well firstly the films may not say it but the "expanded universe" actually shows the current Matrix form was the 3.0 series. (Matrix Online, Enter the Matrix, Animatrix, website lore).
Matrix 2.0 was Hell. When Heaven didn't work the Machines overcompansated and created Hell, the first Agents (Seraph and his kind) where Angels with literal wings, they were all deleted but for Seraph, who sold his code (stand in for selling his soul) to the Merovingian who was essentially Lucifur/Baphomet for this version. They all managed by some wrangling from Merv to stay in the 3.0 version, leading to some of the first corruptions of it.
The Oracle was also written between 2 and 3 to be a counterbalance to the Architect who could not for the life of him understand Human beings, so she was needed, somewhere between 3.0 and 3.1 she regretted her creation of the second form of Agents, Smith being the first, and assumed the Oracle role and lead to the first "One" to counter him.
The Machines simply used this against her and created the entire cycle of the One/reboot. Using the supercode Humans generated that was a blend of Human and Machine code perfecting the bridge between each version.
Neo's abilities in the second and third film were explained, he touched the Source code of the Matrix, was taken there to the Architect, or at least his mind was.
He was the only one to make the "second choice" and separate from it again. Or as it turned out, not do so, he was still "Wifi-ed" to it allowing him to hijack the signal of machines connected to it too, the Sentinals, who are for some reason partly connected to both mainframes (Matrix Online).
The Oracle got sick of being used, lied to Morpheus, Trinity and Neo and her "son" Smith and used them to create the 3.5-ish reboot that we see in Revolutions. She played the whole system with the lives of everyone, Machines and all.
So yes, it was all a layer of control, just not from the two sides who were fighting the war all this time.
She forced the change she meant to make the first time, far more recklessly, a trait she slowly learned from us.
Matrix 2.0 was Hell. When Heaven didn't work the Machines overcompansated and created Hell, the first Agents (Seraph and his kind) where Angels with literal wings, they were all deleted but for Seraph, who sold his code (stand in for selling his soul) to the Merovingian who was essentially Lucifur/Baphomet for this version. They all managed by some wrangling from Merv to stay in the 3.0 version, leading to some of the first corruptions of it.
The Oracle was also written between 2 and 3 to be a counterbalance to the Architect who could not for the life of him understand Human beings, so she was needed, somewhere between 3.0 and 3.1 she regretted her creation of the second form of Agents, Smith being the first, and assumed the Oracle role and lead to the first "One" to counter him.
The Machines simply used this against her and created the entire cycle of the One/reboot. Using the supercode Humans generated that was a blend of Human and Machine code perfecting the bridge between each version.
Neo's abilities in the second and third film were explained, he touched the Source code of the Matrix, was taken there to the Architect, or at least his mind was.
He was the only one to make the "second choice" and separate from it again. Or as it turned out, not do so, he was still "Wifi-ed" to it allowing him to hijack the signal of machines connected to it too, the Sentinals, who are for some reason partly connected to both mainframes (Matrix Online).
The Oracle got sick of being used, lied to Morpheus, Trinity and Neo and her "son" Smith and used them to create the 3.5-ish reboot that we see in Revolutions. She played the whole system with the lives of everyone, Machines and all.
So yes, it was all a layer of control, just not from the two sides who were fighting the war all this time.
She forced the change she meant to make the first time, far more recklessly, a trait she slowly learned from us.
^ Interesting. Thanks. 
Yeah, the two races essentially act as co-dependent abusive partners that give birth to a third race, the sentient programs.
The one who has to clean up after them both has to spend 600 years watching them fight and twist her every attempt to put an end to it, bringing the fight through Heaven, Hell and everything in between.
The trilogy is a subtle revelation of the fact she's pretty much thought "fuck it" and brought all of them to the brink, making both sides finally face each other on equal ground, and justs trusts that it will work.
And it only works because she mimics the mass manipulation of the machines and the basic tenants of Human behaviour, and plays them both at their own game.
Pity the movies didn't convey anywhere near as well as they could have.
The one who has to clean up after them both has to spend 600 years watching them fight and twist her every attempt to put an end to it, bringing the fight through Heaven, Hell and everything in between.
The trilogy is a subtle revelation of the fact she's pretty much thought "fuck it" and brought all of them to the brink, making both sides finally face each other on equal ground, and justs trusts that it will work.
And it only works because she mimics the mass manipulation of the machines and the basic tenants of Human behaviour, and plays them both at their own game.
Pity the movies didn't convey anywhere near as well as they could have.
My best friend has the same attitude: "Which sequels?"
I would say it really, really depends on how you approached and experienced the first film.
Do you take everything literal, does everything have to have a reasonable explanation or are you willing to watch the sequels as metaphors with plenty of symbolism where Agent Smith - after his "joining" with Neo in MATRIX - has essentially become the alter ego and incarnation of Neo's dark side?
I regard the MATRIX Trilogy as the "new" STAR WARS Trilogy, where RELOADED is basically TESB while REVOLUTIONS is more along the lines of ROTJ (with plenty of stuff that could have been shortened) but, of course, in a completely different and fresh context.
For me it's the ultimate metaphor but you can't take things literally. Machines requiring human energy but simultaneously having all the equipment to harvest geothermal energy instead (which is how humanity survives, BTW)?
The bottom line, nicely visualized in RELOADED, is how we all deal with "purpose", i.e. where it drives us and how do we cope when we loose it.
RELOADED has great dialogue, memorable scenes, a wealth of subtle hints and details, but it's an open act II and you'll need to watch the third and final act, too.
Regarding the end of REVOLUTIONS I'd say it was inevitable.
Bob
Matrix to me has aged extremely badly. Back then I found it extremely cool. Now I have laugh at the slowmotion shots. And when they senselessly shoot innocent people up, just because they stand in their way. Holy crap. And those sunglasses. It's never too dark to be cool.
Seems I can't take the film seriously anymore.
And the sequels. What sequels? Those were already bad back then.
Seems I can't take the film seriously anymore.
And the sequels. What sequels? Those were already bad back then.
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