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Dukat attracted to Nerys?

In exchange for the fancy life Dukat was giving her, she forgot about the concentration camps and the resistance living in caves fighting to free Bajor.

That was the point of the story.

Kira's mummy was a dirty no good collaborator.
Personally, I thought the point of the story was that Nerys believed as you do, but discovered that Meru did what she did to save her family. Nerys may not have condoned Meru's choices, but it was definitely more "grey area" than she first thought.

EDIT: And what Teacake said. :)
 
And that Meru did what was necessary kind of makes Dukat her stepfather which makes his interest in her all the more creepy... "I bedded her... and her mother." :wtf: :barf:
 
:wtf:

Great description of a shell-shocked, starved, over-worked woman who has been led off of armed guards.

Nonsense. The occupation had been going for twenty years before Dukat took over. Meru never had a good life to expect any better, which is why privilege was so seductive. The Cardassians kept meticulous records, which means that they kept meticulous justifications. Kira transitioned back to ore processing from Comfortgirl just fine. Sure they'd work some one to death, but they'd never execute a worker in public with out notarizing the correct forms, and that pimp so did not have the authority to have his stable thinned.

Yes, rape, Guy Gardener.

What do you think would've happened if she'd initially said no to Dukat's men? Do you think they would've just left her and her family alone to live out their lives in peace? I seriously doubt it! If she agreed to the sexual relationship with Dukat because her life and/or wellbeing or that of her family was threatened... that was rape. It's totally irrelevant that she developed feelings for him. If you don't understand why, look up Stockholm Syndrome.

The well being of her family was not threatened. The opposite happened. It was made better, and if she went back to them it just would have gone back to the regular degree of horrible and not a new depth of horrible, if she managed her withdrawl with some grace.

And, yes, of course one can rape a whore.

You really don't understand words do you?

Kira has very black and white thinking and her character arc is often about learning to see that life is more complicated than that even, or especially, during war.

Her mother was ultimately a survivor using whatever tools she had for taking care of her family which included taking care of herself. If she had let her position as Dukat's sex slave psychologically and emotionally destroy her he would have lost interest in her and discarded her. Her children would no longer be fed. So by embracing the role and enjoying aspects of it (good food, physical safety, conversation) she kept this arrangement, and therefore her children, alive. This is not weakness.

If she was constantly telling her self that? Like Walt on Breaking Bad... "I'm doing this for my Family" Fine.

But Meru drank the cool aide.

There was no moral scales, no constant assessment of if she had gone one hummer too far. She sold out her planet for fresh fruit.

Meru never once considered saying no, or sticking a knife in Dukat's throat.

From the first moment she was yes, yes yes.

Dukat seduced her, and then made her life wonderful.

She thought that she was special.

An 8 year relationship that only concluded becuase she died?

(Unless he killed her) She was special.

Did he lie?

No more than I would have had to bed any of the boys here.

In exchange for the fancy life Dukat was giving her, she forgot about the concentration camps and the resistance living in caves fighting to free Bajor.

That was the point of the story.

Kira's mummy was a dirty no good collaborator.
Personally, I thought the point of the story was that Nerys believed as you do, but discovered that Meru did what she did to save her family. Nerys may not have condoned Meru's choices, but it was definitely more "grey area" than she first thought.

EDIT: And what Teacake said. :)

Which is why Kira changed her mind about the Bomb she set that was going to kill her mommy, but really forgiving and forgetting are two entirely different things.

What's the name of the episode we're talking about? I might re-watch it.

Darker_Than_Death_or_Night


 
He definitely was, though I suspect it was more to see how she compared to her mother.

I do think that it would've been so much better if Dukat (after his breakdown) had revealed that "Tora Naprem" was actual an alias for Kira Meru and that Ziyal was her half sister. It would've been a nice bit to add to her already tragic family history.
 
Guy..

1. We don't know if Meru would have been allowed to "go back". Correct me if I'm wrong but as I recall she was taken against her will from the caves or whatever along with a bunch of other women and at no point during the taking was anyone allowed to say, "no thank you" and left alone. If she could have after a month of Dukat's bed said she wanted to go home do you really think she would be allowed to? Sure he may have cast her out of his bed, sure he may well have not killed her, but that's no guarantee she would go home. More likely shipped off to some Cardassian workhouse, maybe even on trumped up charges that kept her in a penal system. There's your paperwork taken care of. Nothing about Dukat indicates that he would let her go home just like that.

2. I agree she drank the Kool Aid. However:

teacake:
Kira has very black and white thinking and her character arc is often about learning to see that life is more complicated than that even, or especially, during war.

Her mother was ultimately a survivor using whatever tools she had for taking care of her family which included taking care of herself. If she had let her position as Dukat's sex slave psychologically and emotionally destroy her he would have lost interest in her and discarded her. Her children would no longer be fed. So by embracing the role and enjoying aspects of it (good food, physical safety, conversation) she kept this arrangement, and therefore her children, alive. This is not weakness.
Guy:
If she was constantly telling her self that? Like Walt on Breaking Bad... "I'm doing this for my Family" Fine.

But Meru drank the cool aide.

There was no moral scales, no constant assessment of if she had gone one hummer too far. She sold out her planet for fresh fruit.
She could put aside all her fears and concerns for her children getting food (and that's what Nerys says, that she remembers eating better).

Both of these things can exist simultaneously, that she was seduced by luxury and Dukat's charisma and that she had peace that her children were being cared for and spared being rounded up and sent somewhere more heinous than their current life (like a laboratory or a particularly awful camp). However much she was personally seduced, that her children's wellbeing was no longer something she feared for cannot be left out of the equation.
Meru never once considered saying no, or sticking a knife in Dukat's throat.
Would she have stabbed Dukat or tried to leave if she didn't have the assurance and the peace of mind that her children were fine? We do not know. Not everyone can be a hero, but that doesn't make everyone who isn't is a coward. We do know though that for Meru the stakes were considerably less high once her children were safe.
 
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Teacake, I didn't say that they would send Meru home, but I did suggest that they could demote her into a parallel field like ore processing, like how what happened with Kira after she decked a guard, if she was mildly resistant to the program.

BASSO: Well done. I can hardly believe that you're the same women I met yesterday. In fact, you're not. Your old lives have ended. Your pasts have been erased. You have one purpose and one purpose only. To provide comfort and care to the Cardassian officers stationed here. Do that well, and you'll want for nothing. Fail, and you and your family will be sent to a labour camp. Now remember, ladies, you're all easily replaceable. Make one mistake and I won't hesitate to

Kira beat up a guard and nothing too horrible happened. She was just moved to the Stations general labour pool. Obviously Basso was exaggerating about how much power he had, and the women who didn't make it as whores would also be moved to other fields if they didn't cut the mustard in their monthly evaluations.
 
Teacake, I didn't say that they would send Meru home, but I did suggest that they could demote her into a parallel field like ore processing, like how what happened with Kira after she decked a guard, if she was mildly resistant to the program.

You said:

The well being of her family was not threatened. The opposite happened. It was made better, and if she went back to them it just would have gone back to the regular degree of horrible and not a new depth of horrible, if she managed her withdrawl with some grace.
Which is talking about "if" she went back to them and what the conditions would be like. So this seems to be about an option she theoretically had that she failed to take?

BASSO: Well done. I can hardly believe that you're the same women I met yesterday. In fact, you're not. Your old lives have ended. Your pasts have been erased. You have one purpose and one purpose only. To provide comfort and care to the Cardassian officers stationed here. Do that well, and you'll want for nothing. Fail, and you and your family will be sent to a labour camp. Now remember, ladies, you're all easily replaceable. Make one mistake and I won't hesitate to
Kira beat up a guard and nothing too horrible happened. She was just moved to the Stations general labour pool. Obviously Basso was exaggerating about how much power he had, and the women who didn't make it as whores would also be moved to other fields if they didn't cut the mustard in their monthly evaluations.
uhh.. but he said their families would be sent to labor camps.

She is told right here that if she fails it will suck big time for her family. It doesn't matter if Basso is a blowhard who can't do that, evaluating how much power people have over her isn't possible in her position.

So this is actually even worse than I remembered it. Dukat didn't just provide food and protection, had she failed things would have potentially not gone back to the "regular old horrible" but gotten much worse. So I don't see how you can say (above) that "the well being of her family was not threatened".
 
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But she doesn't know he's Hitler. He's just some hot SS guy, seemingly hotter and nicer and more generous than all the other buffoons she's been dealing with for years.
 
If she killed him they would have just promoted someone else to Prefect. But first a whole lot of Bajorans, including her family, would have died in retribution. Nothing would have changed though any need to be seen as reasonable would give way to an even more visibly hardline approach towards the Bajoran people.
 
But that's how terrorism works.

(George Washington was a terrorist against the legal rule of British Colonialism.)

Leia didn't do shit, and Tarkin still blew up Aalderan.

It doesn't matter the consequences, you keep hitting until they just give up and piss off.

besides they have to be careful about making Martyrs.

KIRA: You're really not cut out for this, are you? Being a terrorist, I mean. You're not very good at it.
RIKER: Really?
KIRA: You're acting more like a Starfleet officer who's more interested in intelligence reports and Cardassian politics than in actually hurting Cardassians. You have one of the most powerful ships in this quadrant under your command. Why aren't you out attacking every Cardassian outpost along the border?
RIKER: Because these stakes here are far greater than border outposts.
KIRA: Not for the Maquis, they're not, because the Maquis are terrorists and the only thing terrorists care about is attacking the enemy. I know. I was a terrorist. And if I'd had this ship then, I would've destroyed Deep Space Nine. I would've hit the Cardassians so hard they would have screamed for peace, but I certainly wouldn't have gone flying off into the middle of Cardassia on some wild goose chase.
RIKER: I guess we're different kinds of terrorists.
KIRA: No, you're trying to be a hero. Terrorists don't get to be heroes.
RIKER: We'll see.

How many prefects have to die until no one wants the job?

My guess is 7.
 
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