• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Why the John Hurt Doctor is not considered to "really be" the Doctor

Re: Why the John Hurt Doctor is not considered to "really be" the Doct

#10 transferred regeneration energy into his previously severed hand and begat Roseten; Perhaps something may have happened to #8 that splits his regen into #9 and Hurt. Of course, how to do you tell this story without the #8 and #9 actors being in the show...
 
Re: Why the John Hurt Doctor is not considered to "really be" the Doct

The thing that HurtDoctor did that makes all the other "Doctors" ashamed is that he left a door open so that Dalek upon Dalek upon Dalek can escape.
 
Re: Why the John Hurt Doctor is not considered to "really be" the Doct

So, by that logic, should the Doctors be ashamed of the Fourth incarnation for not destroying the entire Dalek race in Genesis of the Daleks?
 
Re: Why the John Hurt Doctor is not considered to "really be" the Doct

So, what's the Biological issue?
If I remember right in in the original series they never gave a reason why. They just stated that they couldn't regenerate more than 12 times. At a guess I would figure it's because their body's cells can only handle being rebuilt 12 times.



Maybe that's why Moffat decided to create an extra Doctor, maybe, because he wants to address the 12 Regeneration rule, and be the one who gives the Doctor new lives before Moffat moves on to his next job?
Yup. He wants to be the one to extend or undo the regen limit.


It's the fact that Capaldi is the 12th actor to play the role - this is officially designated by Moffat and co during the press release - and yet John Hurt is apparently a 13th actor.
Everyone always forgets about poor old Richard Hurndall.:( Not to mention Michael Jayston and Toby Jones.

It's the fact that Capaldi is the 12th actor to play the role - this is officially designated by Moffat and co during the press release - and yet John Hurt is apparently a 13th actor. So he'll probably get swallowed up by a crack in time or the Doctor is reset/gifted another regeneration - but still doesn't hide the fact that - if John Hurt really is "the Doctor" between 8 and 9 - Capaldi should be 'officially' the 13th, because biologically speaking he has to be.
I agree with everything Candlelight has said. The Doctor in his Ninth and Tenth form has been pretty open about he did, and never gave an inclination that he had something to hide in terms of what he did do, which was to end the Time War by wiping out all Daleks and Time Lords. More importantly, WE know this, as an audience, so that doesn't really leave much in the way of mystery.

And even more importantly, I'm not sure the Doctor in his 11th incarnation hid it away, either - Emily seemed to know pretty well of what had happened to the Time Lords, and he frequently mentioned he was the last of his species.

So, really, if the shock twist of the Doctor in his Hurt form has to do with the actual termination of the Time War... Russel T. Davies beat him to it.
Going by the dialog at the end of "The Name of the Doctor" Moffat is setting up that the Doctor has no problem admitting what he did. He's just so ashamed by the incarnation that did it that he disavows his exsistance.

Basically, it's cheap and easy way to add another incarnation and keep the current Doctor numbering order the same by having selves 10-12 (possibly 13 as well) strip the 9th of the Doctor title.
 
Re: Why the John Hurt Doctor is not considered to "really be" the Doct

9,10 and 11 might be upfront and open about what they did, but war is a messy business and, so far as we can asscertain, the Time War waged for a while. A man might spend years fighting in a war, and do terrible things that still stay on one side of the moral fence, yet in one battle, one skirmish, cross the line horrendously--that's what I imagine is the case in this instance.

As for the biology of the situation, hasn't RTD already somewhat messed things up by creating 10.5?

Actually are we sure Hurt isn't an 8.5 who was somehow reamalgamated when the Doctor regenrated into nine?
 
Re: Why the John Hurt Doctor is not considered to "really be" the Doct

I think he has to be a Doctor in his own right, since he doesn't look like any of the other Doctors. I'm one of the 'new Doctor is actually the 13th' camp but I think Bob may be right in saying that Moffat created a mess and now has to find a way out of it.

Also 'there can only be 12 regenerations' is never going to stick so there's no point in getting upset about it trampling over True Fans' feelings.
 
Re: Why the John Hurt Doctor is not considered to "really be" the Doct

Here's a thought....is it possible that a regeneration goes horribly wrong and splits the Doctor in two? So that McGann's dr. turned into Eccleston's, but ALSO Hurt's? So that's why he was a cast off (along with what he did)?
 
Re: Why the John Hurt Doctor is not considered to "really be" the Doct

Here's a thought....is it possible that a regeneration goes horribly wrong and splits the Doctor in two? So that McGann's dr. turned into Eccleston's, but ALSO Hurt's? So that's why he was a cast off (along with what he did)?

Yes, I think that could work. A sort of non-identical twin situation but arising from a regeneration, rather than human birth. Though if that's what they do, it'll make the absence of McGann and Eccleston even more glaring.
 
Re: Why the John Hurt Doctor is not considered to "really be" the Doct

Here's a thought....is it possible that a regeneration goes horribly wrong and splits the Doctor in two? So that McGann's dr. turned into Eccleston's, but ALSO Hurt's? So that's why he was a cast off (along with what he did)?

Yes, I think that could work. A sort of non-identical twin situation but arising from a regeneration, rather than human birth. Though if that's what they do, it'll make the absence of McGann and Eccleston even more glaring.
And you think it won't be already?
 
Re: Why the John Hurt Doctor is not considered to "really be" the Doct

That is a cheat, and a bad one.
 
Re: Why the John Hurt Doctor is not considered to "really be" the Doct

Here's a thought....is it possible that a regeneration goes horribly wrong and splits the Doctor in two? So that McGann's dr. turned into Eccleston's, but ALSO Hurt's? So that's why he was a cast off (along with what he did)?

Yes, I think that could work. A sort of non-identical twin situation but arising from a regeneration, rather than human birth. Though if that's what they do, it'll make the absence of McGann and Eccleston even more glaring.
And you think it won't be already?

Why do you think I said 'even more' glaring?
 
Re: Why the John Hurt Doctor is not considered to "really be" the Doct

Yes, I think that could work. A sort of non-identical twin situation but arising from a regeneration, rather than human birth. Though if that's what they do, it'll make the absence of McGann and Eccleston even more glaring.
And you think it won't be already?

Why do you think I said 'even more' glaring?
Ah, right. Sorry, Captain!
 
Re: Why the John Hurt Doctor is not considered to "really be" the Doct

So, what's the Biological issue?
If I remember right in in the original series they never gave a reason why. They just stated that they couldn't regenerate more than 12 times. At a guess I would figure it's because their body's cells can only handle being rebuilt 12 times.



Maybe that's why Moffat decided to create an extra Doctor, maybe, because he wants to address the 12 Regeneration rule, and be the one who gives the Doctor new lives before Moffat moves on to his next job?
Yup. He wants to be the one to extend or undo the regen limit.


Everyone always forgets about poor old Richard Hurndall.:( Not to mention Michael Jayston and Toby Jones.

It's the fact that Capaldi is the 12th actor to play the role - this is officially designated by Moffat and co during the press release - and yet John Hurt is apparently a 13th actor. So he'll probably get swallowed up by a crack in time or the Doctor is reset/gifted another regeneration - but still doesn't hide the fact that - if John Hurt really is "the Doctor" between 8 and 9 - Capaldi should be 'officially' the 13th, because biologically speaking he has to be.
I agree with everything Candlelight has said. The Doctor in his Ninth and Tenth form has been pretty open about he did, and never gave an inclination that he had something to hide in terms of what he did do, which was to end the Time War by wiping out all Daleks and Time Lords. More importantly, WE know this, as an audience, so that doesn't really leave much in the way of mystery.

And even more importantly, I'm not sure the Doctor in his 11th incarnation hid it away, either - Emily seemed to know pretty well of what had happened to the Time Lords, and he frequently mentioned he was the last of his species.

So, really, if the shock twist of the Doctor in his Hurt form has to do with the actual termination of the Time War... Russel T. Davies beat him to it.
Going by the dialog at the end of "The Name of the Doctor" Moffat is setting up that the Doctor has no problem admitting what he did. He's just so ashamed by the incarnation that did it that he disavows his exsistance.

Basically, it's cheap and easy way to add another incarnation and keep the current Doctor numbering order the same by having selves 10-12 (possibly 13 as well) strip the 9th of the Doctor title.

Bingo.

He's The Doctor in the same way that Bruce Wayne would still be Batman if he gunned down a family in an alley. Which is to say, not at all.

The Doctor is a selected name, an identity. A promise to the universe, and to himself. Like Batman.
 
Re: Why the John Hurt Doctor is not considered to "really be" the Doct

IDW's Doctor Who #12 may shed some light on John Hurt's Doctor.

Bleeding Cool reprints the two relevant pages, set on Gallifrey on the last day of the Time War. Here's the important dialogue:

The Keeper of the Matrix: If the Doctor has indeed seized the moment--

Lady Priyan: He has rejected that name. The renegade stands against us.
 
Re: Why the John Hurt Doctor is not considered to "really be" the Doct

So, the Ninth basically had nothing to do with the Time War, then?
 
Re: Why the John Hurt Doctor is not considered to "really be" the Doct

Maybe at the last momments of the time war Hurt regenerated into Ecleston and Eccleston decided to do the right thing and end it.
 
Re: Why the John Hurt Doctor is not considered to "really be" the Doct

Maybe at the last momments of the time war Hurt regenerated into Ecleston and Eccleston decided to do the right thing and end it.
Thats how I actually thought they're gonna do it. Perhaps even have stock footage of Eccleston to have him as the Doctor end it all.
 
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top