Orson Scott Card "Please don't boycott my film!"

[Pingfah]

Personally I would like to say that all his books should be banned, the film should be destroyed, and he should be legally prevented from ever publishing again. Because that is the only way half the bullshit strawman arguments in this thread will ever be valid or relevant.

 

[DalekJim]

never read it ( I know shame on me) did read the sumary and to me honest - 20 plus years later - meh

unless it's a crappy movie and they want all the hardcore right wingers to come and support it, by alienating gays... but I do marvel at the irony of intolerance for the intolerent

Wow, what a thoughtful contribution to the discussion.

So, yes, he has the right to speak, but, not the right to be heard by those offended by what he says.

I agree. I'm a fan of his and even I don't particularly care to hear his views on where men can or can't stick their willies, nor do I understand why he devotes such time to a cause. If he at least wrote his intolerance as a well-written allegorical sci-fi story, I'd be more likely see pay attention.

Personally I would like to say that all his books should be banned, the film should be destroyed, and he should be legally prevented from ever publishing again. Because that is the only way half the bullshit strawman arguments in this thread will ever be valid or relevant.

Alright.

 

[iguana_tonante]

If I wanted to boycott everything I watch or read written by someone I disagreed with politically I'd have to give up everything but the bible and the Left Behind series.

(Let's face it, sci-fi and fantasy writing is dominated by leftists.)

Horrendous generalities, but here it is: Sci-fi, being principally interested in understanding the present to speculate about the future, is intrinsically progressive (even tho there is a strong libertarian bend in many contemporary sci-fi works). Fantasy, on the other hand, being about an imaginary past with a strong emphasis on traditional values, is habitually conservative.

 

[BillJ]

Well, whatever you think of the man, he was likely pressured by the studio to say something to try to mitigate the damage his views could do to the film.

 

[DalekJim]

Horrendous generalities, but here it is: Sci-fi, being principally interested in understanding the present to speculate about the future, is intrinsically progressive (even tho there is a strong libertarian bend in many contemporary sci-fi works). Fantasy, on the other hand, being about an imaginary past with a strong emphasis on traditional values, is habitually conservative.

To further generalise, the fantasy genre is less political in nature than science-fiction. Tolkien wasn't trying to make any social commentary or critique when he wrote The Lord of the Rings, whereas Frank Herbert certainly was when he made the closest thing to a sci-fi equivalent, Dune.

 

[Sindatur]

Horrendous generalities, but here it is: Sci-fi, being principally interested in understanding the present to speculate about the future, is intrinsically progressive (even tho there is a strong libertarian bend in many contemporary sci-fi works). Fantasy, on the other hand, being about an imaginary past with a strong emphasis on traditional values, is habitually conservative.

To further generalise, the fantasy genre is less political in nature than science-fiction. Tolkien wasn't trying to make any social commentary or critique when he wrote The Lord of the Rings, whereas Frank Herbert certainly was when he made the closest thing to a sci-fi equivalent, Dune.

Sure, but how about if you swap out Tolkein with Narnia? We can cherry pick authors to make it sway whichever way we want.

 

[DalekJim]

Sure, but how about if you swap out Tolkein with Narnia? We can cherry pick authors to make it sway whichever way we want.

I'm a huge admirer of both Tolkien and Lewis, neither were politically charged writers. Sci-fi literature is frequently about the human condition or social critique in a way the fantasy genre isn't usually. It's one of the things I find preferable about fantasy, it works better as escapism. It's harder to escape in to a book if you find it makes you think about what's going in in your own country.

 

[Sindatur]

Sure, but how about if you swap out Tolkein with Narnia? We can cherry pick authors to make it sway whichever way we want.

I'm a huge admirer of both Tolkien and Lewis, neither were politically charged writers. Sci-fi literature is frequently about the human condition or social critique in a way the fantasy genre isn't usually. It's one of the things I find preferable about fantasy, it works better as escapism. It's harder to escape in to a book if you find it makes you think about what's going in in your own country.

Narnia is totally pushing a Religious Agenda in a Political way?

 

[DalekJim]

Narnia is totally pushing a Religious Agenda in a Political way?

Broadly, in the same way Tolkien's work broadly pushes an anti-industrial agenda in a political way. It's far less overt than science-fiction though, and they work primarily as adventure escapism. Tolkien and Lewis were not allegorical writers, and sci-fi is a genre that works heavy with allegory.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Narnia is totally pushing a Religious Agenda in a Political way?

Not in a political way, but I found the religious subtext of the Narnia books rendered reading them more of a nuisance than a pleasure. Lewis was not exactly the theological deep thinker that his fans took him for.

 

[TemporalFlux]

The amount of absolute hatred for Orson Scott Card astonishes me. This is the response to hatred? Greater hatred? I have rarely seen such a vicious crusade against one man.

 

[Avon]

The amount of absolute hatred for Orson Scott Card astonishes me. This is the response to hatred? Greater hatred? I have rarely seen such a vicious crusade against one man.

The amount of absolute hatred from Orson Scott Card astonishes me. The response to his hatred? Not giving him any of my money. I have rarely seen such a vicious crusade by one man against a minority group.

 

[iguana_tonante]

Lewis [was] not [an] allegorical writer

The hell he wasn't. He unarguably wrote in allegorical terms (whatever he says himself: he apparently thought he was too good for allegory.)

 

[sonak]

side 1: i don't want to see this movie because i don't want to fund OSC's homophobia.

side 2: not going to see this film makes you 'intolerant of bigotry' and also somehow this is censorship

which side are you?

also, for this You Lose:

I think somebody should be allowed to openly bash gay folks

in other words ''i think somebody should be allowed to persecute a minority''

speech is not persecution. I am also extremely uncomfortable with laws against "hate speech." Well-intentioned as they may be, putting government in the role of censor is wrong. Also, "offense" is so subjective that they become hard to enforce.

 

[theenglish]

speech is not persecution. I am also extremely uncomfortable with laws against "hate speech." Well-intentioned as they may be, putting government in the role of censor is wrong. Also, "offense" is so subjective that they become hard to enforce.

I agree with this as well. There have been several controversial examples in Canada over the years of heavy handedness in applying the law. I apparently missed the point of several posts and was not clear what I was responding to.

 

[sidious618]

The amount of absolute hatred for Orson Scott Card astonishes me. This is the response to hatred? Greater hatred? I have rarely seen such a vicious crusade against one man.

What?! What hate? No one is saying he should die or be locked up or beaten. They're just saying his views are hateful and that they prefer not to give him any money.

 

[Sindatur]

The amount of absolute hatred for Orson Scott Card astonishes me. This is the response to hatred? Greater hatred? I have rarely seen such a vicious crusade against one man.

Where are you seeing this Greater hatred, please point to it.

His hate speech has advocated imprisoning people for being Gay (so they don't infect others with their Gayness) and overthrowing the Government if they grant us equal rights, which are Constitutionally protected, No one is issuing Death Threats, nor suggesting any kind of violence or imprisonment or taking away his right to spew his hatred.

We are simply refusing to put money into the pocket of a man who will turn around and use that money to commit a political Holy War against us. How is that greater hatred than advocating imprisonment because he doesn't approve of who you sleep with?

A Fundamentalist Christian like himself, might even say we are lovingly trying to guide him into the light, by showing him the consequences of spewing his hatred.

 

[Avon]

[QUOTE =sonak;8360299]

speech is not persecution. I am also extremely uncomfortable with laws against "hate speech." Well-intentioned as they may be, putting government in the role of censor is wrong. Also, "offense" is so subjective that they become hard to enforce.

I agree with this as well. There have been several controversial examples in Canada over the years of heavy handedness in applying the law. I apparently missed the point of several posts and was not clear what I was responding to.

sonak: speech can be persecution. if you were a gay person in a non gay-friendly area and had people shouting abuse at you every day for being gay, i think that would count.

theeenglish: you need to take out the other guy's quote = bit when quoting as this currently makes it look like i said what sonak did. seems to happen sometimes.

 

[Professor Zoom]

The amount of absolute hatred for Orson Scott Card astonishes me. This is the response to hatred? Greater hatred? I have rarely seen such a vicious crusade against one man.

I hope you condemn him for the same reasons. You want to see a vicious crusade, look at those who don't want gay to get married. It's pretty vicious.

Me? I'm not wanting to take his rights away (like he wants to do, or certain prevent people from enjoying rights). I just don't want him to have any of my money.

And that's vicious?

I listen to funk and hip-hop artsist, guys who were on coke, assaulted people, were DUI, had illegal firearm possesion, shot at cops, went to jail many times....however I will still listen to their art because art is just that, its not their political opinion or their life. Same with Richard Wagner he lived with fascism all around him during the German Nazi era, however Wagner's music was just music and people can listen to it today without being accused of supporting fascism.

It's a lovely false equivalency you've created here...

1. No one is saying Card can't do or write what he wants. Just like the funk and hip hop artists you CHOOSE to buy.

2. I don't recall any of those funk or hip-hop artists creating organizations that ACTIVELY seek to create legislation to make us all live on coke and assault people. They are expressing their lives. Just as Card does.

3. Wagner was dead almost 50 years before Hitler came to power.

Orson Scott Cards stupid opinion is just that....its just his stupid opinion
and it does not reflect the opinion of the whole studio or the hundreds of others who worked on the movie

Again, it's not JUST his opinion... it's that he's a BOARD member of an organization trying to stop equal rights. His money goes into that organization. Which he is free to do. As I am free not to give him one penny of my money.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

Lewis was not exactly the theological deep thinker that his fans took him for.

No, he wasn't. Lewis' Trilemma is about a deep as Pascal's Wager, which is to say that they're both about as deep as a puddle and just as (in)significant.

Mere Christianity and The Screwtape Letters are readable and I enjoy them, but Lewis' Christianity strikes me as a fuzzy, Christ-free Christianity that's more about being good and doing good than about the difficult stuff like redemption and metaphysics.

In short, he probably favored the heresy of Pelagius than the orthodoxy of Augustine, which is why his embrace by the "fire and brimstone" evangelicals has never made any sense to me because they wouldn't recognize his theology and he wouldn't recognize them as Christian.