Should Public Transportation Agencies be Allowed to Strike?

[Miss Chicken]

And people who need to get to the hospital for surgery and have no other way than by public transportation can just go without?

I think, in the case of a strike, if the person is too poor to afford a taxi it might be possible to get a hospital, or the Red Cross or similar organisation, to arrange transport. It might be possible to even get help off the union that is striking.

 

[iguana_tonante]

But what could happen is that ones person right to strike interfers with somone elses rights?

Well, I'd say tough shit. They'll manage for a little while.

As for this Strike, it's an inconvenience that is costing this region millions and so much loss of efficiency all for better wages.

I believe you'll think differently if it was your wage.

So getting to work to make a living in a region with already a high cost of living is not an exception to the rule?

No.

I have ZERO sympathy for strikers. Especially civil servants.

I take it you never had to strike to defend your rights or keep your wage above the poverty line. Must have been nice.

And people who need to get to the hospital for surgery and have no other way than by public transportation can just go without?

I think, in the case of a strike, if the person is too poor to afford a taxi it might be possible to get a hospital, or the Red Cross or similar organisation, to arrange transport. It might be possible to even get help off the union that is striking.

Yep. Workers don't strike because they are evil and greedy, they do it because they had no other weapon to deal with powerful businesses and administrations. Public services like police, medical personnel, and transport are expected to keep a minimum of service for emergencies and critical situations.

 

[tomalak301]

^I would be happy making 60K a year just pushing buttons.

 

[iguana_tonante]

So why you don't? (Hint: maybe because it's not just "pushing buttons".)

 

[Timewalker]

I take it you never had to strike to defend your rights or keep your wage above the poverty line. Must have been nice.

Actually, no. I have always preferred to be my own boss, whenever possible. That way I charge what the market will bear, keeping in mind the need to ensure an adequate hourly equivalent. And if I were to strike for more pay, I'd only be hurting myself. It's not like the clients couldn't go elsewhere (they'd get inferior service in my opinion, but it's ultimately their decision).

 

[marksound]

Should public employees be allowed to strike? No.

Should public service management be able to give themselves pay raises? No.

These people work for the public. It should be up to elected oversight to approve budgets and pay.

If they don't like the job, work somewhere else. Start a private sector business. Create jobs.

Not a popular opinion, but I'm used to that.

 

[MacLeod]

But what could happen is that ones person right to strike interfers with somone elses rights?

Well, I'd say tough shit. They'll manage for a little while.

Well in the case of a strike by say train drivers as no one has a right to use one then they do have to live with it.

Most of the time those going on strike do not interfer with someones else right

. A possible example from a few years ago where that might not be the case is when French Fishermen blokaded the channel ports on there side of the Channel, last I chekced EU law allows for unrestriced movement of goods/peoples and services between member nations. Wouldn't a blocakde run counter to that EU law?

Now of course they have the right to strike, but they could have striked by just leaving their boats in dock.

 

[Gryffindorian]

Of course they should.

Do people find it inconvenient? Well, that's kinda the point of striking.

QFT

And BART is a public agency represented by unions. As someone who works for a public agency myself, I support the strike 100%.

 

[Gryffindorian]

Should public employees be allowed to strike? No.

Should public service management be able to give themselves pay raises? No.

These people work for the public. It should be up to elected oversight to approve budgets and pay.

If they don't like the job, work somewhere else. Start a private sector business. Create jobs.

Not a popular opinion, but I'm used to that.

You clearly have no grasp of labor issues. May I ask how old you are?

Edit: Knowledge is power.

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/_/dict.aspx?rd=1&word=strike

 

[marksound]

Should public employees be allowed to strike? No.

Should public service management be able to give themselves pay raises? No.

These people work for the public. It should be up to elected oversight to approve budgets and pay.

If they don't like the job, work somewhere else. Start a private sector business. Create jobs.

Not a popular opinion, but I'm used to that.

You clearly have no grasp of labor issues. May I ask how old you are?

Edit: Knowledge is power.

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/_/dict.aspx?rd=1&word=strike

Over 50. Thanks for asking.

And I do have a grasp of labor issues. I work for a living. I work my butt off for what I am paid by a public institution. Even if offered the chance, I would not strike against my employer. Why? Because I can go find something else to do if I really don't want to work there any more. Seriously.

In the meantime, I do have a private sector business that I have been building from the ground up for the past three years. I also work my butt off at that, every day and night, seven days a week. What I have I've built from literally nothing but an idea. No grants, no loans, just me and my sweat and blood and what money I could spare from my day job.

My wife also works as an independent contractor in her field outside her day job. Which, by the way, is a public sector position. If ordered to strike, she would have no choice, but I know she does not like the idea. Union membership at her "day job" is mandatory. Otherwise, she'd have none of it.

What do you do?

 

[iguana_tonante]

I take it you never had to strike to defend your rights or keep your wage above the poverty line.

Actually, no.

Guessed so.

Now for a shocking revelation: other people are, like, not you. We can't all be self-employed. And striking is pretty much the only way for workers to have their voices heard.

But maybe that's the point: employees have to be punished, because they are not "job creators". Stagnate wages in a time of increasing cost of living, make firing easier and faster, increase job insecurity, took away the means of fighting back. A great recipe for another economic crisis.

. A possible example from a few years ago where that might not be the case is when French Fishermen blokaded the channel ports on there side of the Channel, last I chekced EU law allows for unrestriced movement of goods/peoples and services between member nations. Wouldn't a blocakde run counter to that EU law?

Now of course they have the right to strike, but they could have striked by just leaving their boats in dock.

I am not familiar with that story, but given your summary I would tend to agree with you. On the other hand, there are large grey areas in the topic of labour rights and issues, so every instance has to be judged on its own merit.

 

[marksound]

We can't all be self-employed. And striking is pretty much the only way for workers to have their voices heard.

Wrong.

Everyone can do something. Look around. Every single independent business started with someone having an idea, not wanting to work for someone else.

What do you do best? How can you make that into an income producing proposition?

Even the lowly "ditch digger" can start his own business and be wildly successful if he's willing to work at it.

Saying that not everyone can be self employed is a self-defeating attitude. If that's what you believe about yourself, then you are destined to live at the station in life you have chosen.

 

[JarodRussell]

Everyone should be allowed to strike. Public institutions can exploit their employees just like private companies.

We can't all be self-employed. And striking is pretty much the only way for workers to have their voices heard.

Wrong.

Everyone can do something. Look around. Every single independent business started with someone having an idea, not wanting to work for someone else.

What do you do best? How can you make that into an income producing proposition?

Even the lowly "ditch digger" can start his own business and be wildly successful if he's willing to work at it.

Saying that not everyone can be self employed is a self-defeating attitude. If that's what you believe about yourself, then you are destined to live at the station in life you have chosen.

If everyone was self-employed, there would be billions of one-person-companies.

 

[Timewalker]

I take it you never had to strike to defend your rights or keep your wage above the poverty line.

Actually, no.

Guessed so.

Now for a shocking revelation: other people are, like, not you. We can't all be self-employed. And striking is pretty much the only way for workers to have their voices heard.

But maybe that's the point: employees have to be punished, because they are not "job creators". Stagnate wages in a time of increasing cost of living, make firing easier and faster, increase job insecurity, took away the means of fighting back. A great recipe for another economic crisis.

Now for another shocking revelation: I, like, know that other people are, like, not me. Like I am me, and they, like, are themselves (not sure if I have this ridiculous affectation down right; forgive me, since I never learned "valley-girl" speech).

I am well aware that the employees are mostly the ones who buy the products and services that are offered by the employers. As I've said to more than one huffy person, "It's people like me who help keep people like you in business." So needlessly pissing off the employees is actually pretty stupid.

Now if the local Wal-Mart employees (bad example, I know, since few of them have unions) went on strike, it would inconvenience me, but there are other places I can shop.

However, if the public transit employees went on strike, I'd be basically homebound unless I could get a taxi. We already don't have enough taxis in my city when everything is normal. It would be a nightmare if the bus drivers went on strike.

(and kindly do not tell me to drive, carpool, walk, bike, etc. I do not drive, do not own a car, have no family in town who can drive, and I'm physically disabled. I do walk as much as I can, but some trips are simply out of the question on foot.)

 

[marksound]

Everyone should be allowed to strike. Public institutions can exploit their employees just like private companies.

We can't all be self-employed. And striking is pretty much the only way for workers to have their voices heard.

Wrong.

Everyone can do something. Look around. Every single independent business started with someone having an idea, not wanting to work for someone else.

What do you do best? How can you make that into an income producing proposition?

Even the lowly "ditch digger" can start his own business and be wildly successful if he's willing to work at it.

Saying that not everyone can be self employed is a self-defeating attitude. If that's what you believe about yourself, then you are destined to live at the station in life you have chosen.

If everyone was self-employed, there would be billions of one-person-companies.

And that's a bad idea ... why?

Nobody seems to like corporations these days, so what wrong with people working for themselves?

 

[publiusr]

And many of those start ups fail. But you still need to eat. We live in a country where the iron law is that I make more money if I pay you less. If you are a contractor, I force you to go at odds and underbid competitors. This drives wages down as each company (one man or no) starts cutting. The NLRB kept Boeing from going to a right-to-work state. The only way we can keep living wages is to fight for them.

 

[marksound]

And many of those start ups fail. But you still need to eat. We live in a country where the iron law is that I make more money if I pay you less. If you are a contractor, I force you to go at odds and underbid competitors. This drives wages down as each company (one man or no) starts cutting. The NLRB kept Boeing from going to a right-to-work state. The only way we can keep living wages is to fight for them.

You're right. Most startups fail. That's experience toward the next venture.

And that's the way of the world. If I can do the same of better job at a price that the customer is willing to pay, I get the job. The more jobs I get, the more money. Then I can afford to pay my employees more and provide better benefits.

You're looking at this all wrong.

I want the best people doing the best job, so I will pay as much as I can afford. If my people strike and demand more than I can pay, they will ultimately shut me down and force me to fire all of them.

How is that better?

 

[iguana_tonante]

However, if the public transit employees went on strike, I'd be basically homebound unless I could get a taxi. We already don't have enough taxis in my city when everything is normal. It would be a nightmare if the bus drivers went on strike.

(and kindly do not tell me to drive, carpool, walk, bike, etc. I do not drive, do not own a car, have no family in town who can drive, and I'm physically disabled. I do walk as much as I can, but some trips are simply out of the question on foot.)

I understand your troubles, but if your temporary inconvenience is the only way to improve thousands of workers' standard of living, so be it. I take public transport to work, and it's a fucking nightmare when they strike because there isn't simply enough space on the roads if every commuter would take their own car. It's bad, but I can live with it for a few days a year if it means that hundreds of bus drivers have a decent wage, improved quality of life, and job security.

If everyone was self-employed, there would be billions of one-person-companies.

And that's a bad idea ... why?

Good luck building a Boeing 747 all on your own.

 

[Miss Chicken]

Can you imagine how little medicine/healthcare would have advance if everyone was self-employed?

And who would print all the money?

 

[Tora Ziyal]

Plus he couldn't grow this larger, more successful business that he wants if all his potential employees are working for themselves.