MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

[Admiral Buzzkill]

The shot of the ground shaking under Clark didn't suggest levitation or anti-gravity to me at all.

If Clark can time travel by flying fast enough in a certain way, without mechanical aid, it's an innate power. It's not a "side effect of speed," because he can (could) fly FTL without time traveling. That would be the same as calling his super-breath (a pretty ridiculous power, granted) a "side effect of respiration."

 

[Edit_XYZ]

I call bullocks. Even when he reversed the rotation, I don't believe it's any more literal. It's just their way of illustrating through representation what he was doing.

So now your rationalization has become even more convoluted - given that the film sequence is not compatible with your rationalization, you added a "and the sequence is not accurate, because it contradicts my pet theory".

The sequence in Star trek IV is blatantly supra-realistic/hallucination; in Indiana jones/etc it's blatantly meta-schematic/exposition; etc.

In Supes, it's as real/objective in the movie-verse as the special effects of the time could accomplish - aka, the intent of the movie-makers was for it to be what actually happened.

Well, in his first take off, they showed the snow and some pebbles levitating from his fist.

They did, and the suggestiveness of it was a nice touch in Man of Steel. But I don't believe for one second that this effect was consistently represented in universe throughout the whole film.

Every time Superman banked and changed direction, was matter shown being pushed in the opposite direction, as if by telekinesis, to compensate and in the correct proportion to conserve momentum?*

No. And showing that in universe, in the background somewhere, is not necessary. Superman is fantasy, after all.

* - Perhaps the idea was that the compensation occurred deep inside Earth somewhere. For one thing, that would allow it to have no need to be shown explicitly, while also most of the time conveniently conforming to at least that level of realism.

The least hand-wavy explanation (which remains, nonetheless, firmly fantasy) is that Supes flies by antigravity; as such, he pushes off Earth/nearby mass (which conserves momentum).

 

[Roshi]

Saw it twice. Loved it. I too felt there were boring parts (I dozed off a few times) but I welcomed the new take on Supes' origins. It broke the Donner mold and that's a good thing. Cavill nails it. I like Shannon a lot (and I get that he was programed to protect Krypton) but he did too much... With Stamp you knew camp was part of the job's description. Here, I wanted to bitchslap Zod and tell him to stfu. I think his part was badly written.
I looooved Lois, she did some investigative work for once (absolutely hated Bosworth). Also I geeked out when I saw the BSG cast and the Wayne Enterprises sat, LexCorp truck...
My overall sentiment is mostly positive. Not sure if I want to see an over-the-top Lex in the next movie. When I saw the tentacles with the Kryptonian terraforming devices and A. I.s I immediately thought of Brainiac. That's what I'd like to see next.

 

[Crewman Commander]

The shot of the ground shaking under Clark didn't suggest levitation or anti-gravity to me at all.

An earthquake in response to his pressing into the ground, then, perhaps? I'll have to see the film again to be sure what I saw, but I thought it was shaking at first, suggesting power or that he's about to push off, but then I thought I saw pebbles floating, too.

If Clark can time travel by flying fast enough in a certain way, without mechanical aid, it's an innate power. It's not a "side effect of speed," because he can (could) fly FTL without time traveling. That would be the same as calling his super-breath (a pretty ridiculous power, granted) a "side effect of respiration."

Well, even if he can travel FTL in comics without going back in time, movie continuities are not obliged to grant him that power, correct? In Superman/Superman II (either cut), when did he go FTL, unless it was when he was turning back time?

 

[Locutus of Bored]

Maybe not, but there are hints scattered throughout the film, such as Jor-El's ability to take his sone through space on a journey of exploration even though only 12 years pass during his training.

Or they never literally left the Fortress and that was just a holographic simulation of the journey so Jor-El could educate his son about the universe over the ensuing twelve years that he was getting schooled in the Fortress. He talks about leaving and reentering the galaxy, but then, so did Carl Sagan when he would narrate a simulated visual journey though the stars.

I'm not saying for sure that he didn't take Kal-El on a trip through space. The film isn't 100% clear one way or the other. Jor-El does say at first that "Here in this... Fortress of Solitude, we shall try and find the answers together" --which could imply that they never actually left and it was all a simulation. But it is amusing considering what you say below that you took the scene so... literally.

Of course, Donner has become a bit of a snot. Listen to hid "Donner cut" commentary to hear his holier-than-though tone. If you ask him now, he'd deny what I believe and say that yeah, it's literally what Superman was doing.

but I think my theory works.

Wow, how full of oneself do you have to be to imagine that you are so right that the director of the actual film would deny your obvious rightness only because he's allegedly a prick now? That's an impressive rationalization.

Unfortunately, people have lost their sense of imagination and wonder and take everything they see on film so damn literally...

Or, you know, your idea of what happened is just as subjective as everyone else's and isn't gospel, so maybe you should get down off of the high horse and stop saying that people must have less imagination and wonder than you do if they disagree with you about a film scene.

Then there's the memory-erasing kiss in the second movie. Ugh. Something else that could've been solved by, I dunno, just seeing making a vial of "something" in the FoS, Lois seeing and asking what it is and Superman saying, "Oh, nothing." And then after the kiss we see him looking at the empty vial in his hand.

Because making that scene more suggestive of Lois being roofied by Superman by making it an actual chemical instead of a magical superpowered kiss would be even more uncomfortable. It's bad enough already that he erased her memory without her permission after they had sex. Also, she's pregnant if you include Superman Returns in the continuity (though he didn't know that), which makes it even more uncomfortable.

 

[Greg Cox]

Meanwhile, I just got word that the novelization is #15 on the New York Times Bestseller List. Yippee!

 

[Locutus of Bored]

Congratulations.

 

[sojourner]

To be realistic, when Superman changes trajectory during flight, he must pull or push some other masses outside himself, and such an effect could plausibly be harmful or even fatal to people around him.

Most aircraft would disagree with this statement.

In that case, I suggest you read up on the causes of aerodynamic lift.

You mean the part where its the result of lower pressure on the upper half of the wing as opposed to the under side of the wing? Yes. That's an inherently dangerous example of pulling or pushing masses outside the aircraft that could plausibly be harmful or fatal to the people around the plane. Oh, wait... No, it's not.

Or are you confusing propulsion with lift? Maybe you should read up on that.

Take for example a glider. it can bank and turn with no means of on board propulsion, but it does use lift. Technically, assuming th glider didn't clip you, it could fly and turn within inches of a person and do no real harm. You might get your hair messed up and be frightened. Now, a jumbo jet attempting the same thing would be a problem. Those engines providing propulsion can ruin a person's day real quick. Superman has no engines that we can see. He seems to use "force of will" for propulsion. There are no masses being pushed against.

 

[JD]

Meanwhile, I just got word that the novelization is #15 on the New York Times Bestseller List. Yippee!

Congratulations.

Yeah, congrats. That's great Greg.

So what would really happen if someone could theoretically flip the rotation of the Earth like Superman does in the first (?) movie?

 

[Locutus of Bored]

So what would really happen if someone could theoretically flip the rotation of the Earth like Superman does in the first (?) movie?

[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3ZOKDmorj0[/yt]

 

[sojourner]

Tsunami?

 

[Trekker4747]

So what would really happen if someone could theoretically flip the rotation of the Earth like Superman does in the first (?) movie?

Have you ever taken a cloverleaf onramp at a high rate of speed and felt the weight of your body trying to continue you straight forward while the seatbelt/seat/body of the car pushes you into the turn? Well, you're taking that ramp at around 50 miles an hour or so (depending.) The Earth rotates on its axis at 1,000 miles an hour. Or how about doing a hard stop when moving forward at a good clip and your body proceeds forward at the same rate.

So slowing us down at anything but the slowest of rates (which Superman wasn't doing) would probably cause everyone and everything on the planet to lurch forward at several hundred miles an hour. This would obviously be devastating to pretty much everything all man-made structures turn to dust, everyone is thrust into the nearest wall at Mach speed. Tectonic plates lurch at Mach speeds causing world-wide earthquakes simultaneously. Everywhere. Mountains crumble, chunks of them flying around everywhere, hell the plates might dip and catch under one another causing a massive changes in the continents. Massive tsunamis, and then as the Earth rotation is reversed it pretty much happens all over again as things accelerate faster than everything can cope with.

 

[theenglish]

So what would really happen if someone could theoretically flip the rotation of the Earth like Superman does in the first (?) movie?

Have you ever taken a cloverleaf onramp at a high rate of speed and felt the weight of your body trying to continue you straight forward while the seatbelt/seat/body of the car pushes you into the turn? Well, you're taking that ramp at around 50 miles an hour or so (depending.) The Earth rotates on its axis at 1,000 miles an hour. Or how about doing a hard stop when moving forward at a good clip and your body proceeds forward at the same rate.

So slowing us down at anything but the slowest of rates (which Superman wasn't doing) would probably cause everyone and everything on the planet to lurch forward at several hundred miles an hour. This would obviously be devastating to pretty much everything all man-made structures turn to dust, everyone is thrust into the nearest wall at Mach speed. Tectonic plates lurch at Mach speeds causing world-wide earthquakes simultaneously. Everywhere. Mountains crumble, chunks of them flying around everywhere, hell the plates might dip and catch under one another causing a massive changes in the continents. Massive tsunamis, and then as the Earth rotation is reversed it pretty much happens all over again as things accelerate faster than everything can cope with.

Yes, and the Earth would not go backward in time just because it changes rotation.

 

[theenglish]

Meanwhile, I just got word that the novelization is #15 on the New York Times Bestseller List. Yippee!

Congratulations, Greg! That must make you feel pretty good. Let us know if this has a positive effect on your other work--I would be curious to know.

 

[Greg Cox]

Thanks for all the congratulations, everybody. I was crossing my fingers, but . . . .

 

[stj]

So what would really happen if someone could theoretically flip the rotation of the Earth like Superman does in the first (?) movie?

Have you ever taken a cloverleaf onramp at a high rate of speed and felt the weight of your body trying to continue you straight forward while the seatbelt/seat/body of the car pushes you into the turn? Well, you're taking that ramp at around 50 miles an hour or so (depending.) The Earth rotates on its axis at 1,000 miles an hour. Or how about doing a hard stop when moving forward at a good clip and your body proceeds forward at the same rate.

So slowing us down at anything but the slowest of rates (which Superman wasn't doing) would probably cause everyone and everything on the planet to lurch forward at several hundred miles an hour. This would obviously be devastating to pretty much everything all man-made structures turn to dust, everyone is thrust into the nearest wall at Mach speed. Tectonic plates lurch at Mach speeds causing world-wide earthquakes simultaneously. Everywhere. Mountains crumble, chunks of them flying around everywhere, hell the plates might dip and catch under one another causing a massive changes in the continents. Massive tsunamis, and then as the Earth rotation is reversed it pretty much happens all over again as things accelerate faster than everything can cope with.

Yes. You might be interested to know that H.G. Wells' screenplay The Man Who Could Work Miracles had the titular lead stop the Earth, without taking momentum into account. Biblical proportions indeed!

PS Congratulations to the ex-poster Greg Cox!

 

[Zombie Cheerleader]

Ex-poster? Is Greg too good for us now?

 

[stj]

^^^Of course! What if someone found out he still posts here, all his winner image would disappear faster than Scotty could beam up Kirk!

 

[Greg Cox]

Ex-poster? Is Greg too good for us know?

That puzzled me as well. You're not getting rid of me that easily!

 

[M.A.C.O.]

Just sat for Man Of Steel for a second viewing I intend to see if my initial rating of A and positive review holds up.