Miranda starships in war

[bbjeg]

Besides being the most upgradeable ship (nacelles and a superstructure roll bar with added torpedo launchers and phaser banks), ships like the Miranda and Ambassador classes (which were also used in the Dominion war) were built for war where later ships were built more for exploration. Miranda classes were the Defiants of their day. Personally, because of the upgradable aspect, it's my favorite ship.

 

[Timo]

Miranda built for war? It rather seems they forgot to even install weapons, and had to add them afterwards!

We never quite saw them upgraded, either. All we saw was downgrading: removal of the torpedo system, limited use for supply or science duties, failure to fire beams from most of the saucer phaser emitters...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[bbjeg]

We never quite saw them upgraded, either. All we saw was downgrading: removal of the torpedo system, limited use for supply or science duties, failure to fire beams from most of the saucer phaser emitters...

Standard 2250s-2260s Miranda configuration.

USS Lantree, standard refit configuration.

The USS Brattain, with a rollbar.

The USS Saratoga featuring additional side mounted sensor pods in lieu of a rollbar.

I don't think any other ship was upgraded more.

 

[Timo]

That comment was only half in jest. We have no evidence that there ever was an "original" configuration to the ship. And we have no evidence that any of the modifications were upgrades - with ships that old, the real-world precedent would be stripping down because the old ladies no longer can handle the burden of full mission gear. Hence the removal of roll bars (Lantree or the reinforcing of bridges with lots of thick pillars (Brattain)...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Rarewolf]

"wings" of tiny Raiders and Peregrine fighters next to capital ships, they'll use anything in a pitched battle if the stakes are high enough.

Always wondered if they were even manned - it would seem to be just throwing good pilots away - and that perhaps they were flown by remote. We saw a Runabout could be flown by remote.

Don't forget the USS Odyssey was one of the first casualties of the war and it, too, was a Galaxy class

Did they really think that we would all collectively freak out and yell "OMG, they destroyed the Enterprise!! Oh, wait - they destroyed another Enterprise!!! And another!!!!" all in the same battle scene?

I think its the same reason in both cases - showing a situation that could destroy a ship identical to the Enterprise. With the Dominion's introduction it was saying this is how tough they are, that just as easily could have been the Enterprise.

So for the same reason they wouldn't want to show how the Sovereign would fair.

And of course the Galaxy Class Enterprise D's days were numbered by The JemHader anyway, they were already preparing for the movies.

 

[Solariabsg25]

Actually, I think it would make more sense for the rollbar to be "standard", the Lantree was after all a glorified cargo-ship, unlikely to need heavy photon torpedo weaponry during cargo runs.

Not that I'm saying the Miranda isn't necessarily a modular design, but just that the rollbar is the standard model, whereas the conversions are options.

During TWOK we only saw the Reliant fire photons and the heavy phaser cannons, we never saw her use the standard saucer phaser banks she also had, just as we've never seen the Enterprise fire her aft phasers.

As to earlier mentions of the minimum crew, Khan and the gang handled the Reliant quite well with only a few dozen. Of course, long-term the efficiency may have suffered, but the augments may have been capable of handling longer duty shifts than normal humans.

 

[Richard Baker]

It was said that a Galaxy Class could be flown by one person walking around the hallways with a PADD. I think in the Dominion wars the Federation needed to get every ship available into the fight, hence the Franken-Fleet vessels cobbled together with random parts of other classes mixed together.
The Miranda class is a good stable workhorse with two massive shuttle bays and configuration options. If you want to explore and maintain a large volume of space it is better to have dozens reliable proven ships to spread out your resources- larger ships may have more capability but they take time/material to build and normally have large crews. Imagine how many Mirandas could be fielded for what it takes to build and crew a Galaxy class.

 

[Praetor]

I would think that if Scotty can automate the damaged Enterprise, albeit with mixed success, in the 23rd century, then surely Starfleet could figure out a way to automate a Miranda with some degree of success in the 24th.

That said, Scotty does note in TSFS "I didn't expect to take 'er into combat, you know..." Now, what does he mean? "I should have done a more thorough job if we were going to fight" or "Automation always fails in a fight"? And either way, why would we think it would be the same in the 24th century?

From the Lantree and Brattain we know at least that it is possible to automate them for non-combat missions.

Regarding Miranda outfitting, indeed we do not canonically know what the first ship to use this configuration looked like. What we do know is that it seems to be very modular and adaptable. Personally, I assume the roll bar to be standard equipment, but perhaps easily removable for different mission types. Other configurations would be variants rather than refits - consider the Nebula class variants.

There is something to Timo's notion of the old gals not being able to handle it anymore - most of the ones we saw in the Dominion War (with rollbar) appeared to have higher registries, implying newer vessels. Then again, so does the Saratoga, which had no rollbar, but did have modern control surfaces in her bridge, civilians aboard, and escape pods in the shuttlebays.

 

[USS KG5]

Battleships do have a complement of about 1500 but they are not going to be out there alone. Nobody in their right mind would attack a battleship because first of all they would never get within range with a sub or surface group to get a shot off. That 16 inch armor belt would stop any modern torpedo and as I said before,no modern weaponry can damage one except for a nuke,and that would have to be a direct hit. Compared to the cost of an Aegis class cruiser or destroyer,an battleship is a better bet not only to survive an encounter but be able to send out way more punishment that she could receive. Carriers also have the protection of their group,but let one missle get through and the carrier might not be destroyed but her ability to fight might be compromised. not the case with a battleship.

Wow - when did I have this conversation, I don't think I had a kid at the time!

As for Battleships, totally obsolete at the time when the Iowas were built, let alone now. Yamato and Mushashi, largest battleships ever built were sunk by heavy air attack and their converted sister-ship Shinano by sub torpedoes. A battleship in a modern war would be basically useless except for what they were used for in WW2, shore bombardment.

 

[USS KG5]

^ FWIW... There's another reason for a large crew on a combatant in RL.

Cannon fodder / damage.

There's basically two (or more) people for any given position, with the exception of the command cadre, in case one of them is lost. As that line from the A&E Hornblower movies goes, "The mathematics of defeat...', although not the same circumstances per se.

Cheers,
-CM-

Yes I know - but I still doubt Starfleet would put 200-400 crew on a Miranda.

Bonus points for quoting from Hornblower though, I love those books