Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi
It absolutely is. This is why most Trek fans like it.
It absolutely is. This is why most Trek fans like it.
Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoilers
- Thread starter Bones
- Start date
Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi
They all made money, ergo studio wise, they were a sucess. Story wise, it's another matter, as we've seen here on these pages.
Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi
Then why does the movie going public still attach a stigma to it?
Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi
We've seen some people say they'd rather it be on TV. But if you look at the ratings the latest film has generated here and on other websites, I'd say it was a successful Star Trek movie with both ticket buyers and critics.
I'd say it made a successful transition from from one medium to the other, starting with The Wrath of Khan.
We've seen some people say they'd rather it be on TV. But if you look at the ratings the latest film has generated here and on other websites, I'd say it was a successful Star Trek movie with both ticket buyers and critics.
I'd say it made a successful transition from from one medium to the other, starting with The Wrath of Khan.
Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi
No big deal, but that was actually DarthTom that said that, not me.
No big deal, but that was actually DarthTom that said that, not me.
Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi
That's not necessarily true. I saw X-Men 3 in the movie theater and X-Men First Class on DVD. So if you are counting my preference by dollars then you would say I preferred X-Men 3 when in actuallity I clearly feel that First Class is the far superior film.
I just happen to watch a majority of movies by DVD these days because its much more convenient and fiscally prudent. (Monthly rental plan)
That's not necessarily true. I saw X-Men 3 in the movie theater and X-Men First Class on DVD. So if you are counting my preference by dollars then you would say I preferred X-Men 3 when in actuallity I clearly feel that First Class is the far superior film.
I just happen to watch a majority of movies by DVD these days because its much more convenient and fiscally prudent. (Monthly rental plan)
Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi
It's true enough. Anecdotal exceptions don't make the case.
It's true enough. Anecdotal exceptions don't make the case.
Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi
Hey folks, STID is killing what DREDD made at the box office!!! Not to mention Ghost Rider, Daredevil, Green Hornet, Green Lantern, Thor and The Incredible Hulk. Not all Superhero films are more popular than Star Trek!
But seriously, if Paramount wants to increase the visibility of the Star Trek franchise the only way to do it is though other types of media. The most obvious would be a television series. They could also do theme park tie ins, cartoons, etc, to try and reach younger viewers. The question is twofold. First, does Paramount want to make that kind of commitment and second, can they do so without screwing it up. Remember, Hollywood creates far more failures than successes.
Hey folks, STID is killing what DREDD made at the box office!!! Not to mention Ghost Rider, Daredevil, Green Hornet, Green Lantern, Thor and The Incredible Hulk. Not all Superhero films are more popular than Star Trek!
But seriously, if Paramount wants to increase the visibility of the Star Trek franchise the only way to do it is though other types of media. The most obvious would be a television series. They could also do theme park tie ins, cartoons, etc, to try and reach younger viewers. The question is twofold. First, does Paramount want to make that kind of commitment and second, can they do so without screwing it up. Remember, Hollywood creates far more failures than successes.
Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi
Animation is really the way to go. It's cheaper than live-action and can be pointed at children and adults simultaneously.
Animation is really the way to go. It's cheaper than live-action and can be pointed at children and adults simultaneously.
Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi
For sake of discussion, (A "film" is typically about the main character's defining moment, while "tv" is typically more or less a day to day adventure(s) of our hero and friends.)
In this case we have a more episodic approach, abet on a larger canvas. TMP is more filmic, and the jury is still out on the Abrams trek. (Two films are not easy to pull a trend from.)
If we set aside TMP and go with 2 through 6, I would almost agree with you. If we strip away all of the sub plots and go with just the story line we see that they have roots in the TV series. 2,3, and 4 are a story arc of Spock starting with the series' Space Seed epsode. While 5 and 6 were typical of epsodic TOS.
For sake of discussion, (A "film" is typically about the main character's defining moment, while "tv" is typically more or less a day to day adventure(s) of our hero and friends.)
In this case we have a more episodic approach, abet on a larger canvas. TMP is more filmic, and the jury is still out on the Abrams trek. (Two films are not easy to pull a trend from.)
Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi
No its not true. Your myopic definition of which movie is "better" is simply not valid. All you can show is which movie made more money at the box office. That's akin to saying that Wes Welker is a better receiver than Chad Johnson because he caught more passes. Or that Robert Horry is a better NBA player than Larry Bird because he has more NBA titles.
Face it, you phrased your statement incorrectly and have been called to task on it by many on this thread. But now you are simply too stubborn to admit that inserting any arbitrary factor about a movie isolated and out of context with everything else is not a sound way of creating a definitive appraisal of a movies "quality". That's about as factual as saying "More young children are familiar with Dora the Exporer than the Muppets so a movie about Dora would do better than another Muppet movie."
Perhaps you can again why we need except your "standard definition of measurement" that has been universally accepted by the population. Can you show me some links to some people or entities not involved with this discussion have made similar claims about the universal acceptance of box office dollars and movie quality? I anxiously await you showing me that I am mistaken and these references actually abound but I have simply not recognized them.
No its not true. Your myopic definition of which movie is "better" is simply not valid. All you can show is which movie made more money at the box office. That's akin to saying that Wes Welker is a better receiver than Chad Johnson because he caught more passes. Or that Robert Horry is a better NBA player than Larry Bird because he has more NBA titles.
Face it, you phrased your statement incorrectly and have been called to task on it by many on this thread. But now you are simply too stubborn to admit that inserting any arbitrary factor about a movie isolated and out of context with everything else is not a sound way of creating a definitive appraisal of a movies "quality". That's about as factual as saying "More young children are familiar with Dora the Exporer than the Muppets so a movie about Dora would do better than another Muppet movie."
Perhaps you can again why we need except your "standard definition of measurement" that has been universally accepted by the population. Can you show me some links to some people or entities not involved with this discussion have made similar claims about the universal acceptance of box office dollars and movie quality? I anxiously await you showing me that I am mistaken and these references actually abound but I have simply not recognized them.
Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi
Different global reality now, where the Nolan Batman films, Iron Man and The Avengers set the new standard of what can be achieved with fantasy films. In this era, nuTrek still fails to reach that top shelf of success despite the JJ car wax/parade fireworks trappings--allegedly designed to expand to the demographics known for following bigger films.
After all of the revision...the noise..in other words, "it's not yer daddy's Star Trek," what's the excuse?
Different global reality now, where the Nolan Batman films, Iron Man and The Avengers set the new standard of what can be achieved with fantasy films. In this era, nuTrek still fails to reach that top shelf of success despite the JJ car wax/parade fireworks trappings--allegedly designed to expand to the demographics known for following bigger films.
After all of the revision...the noise..in other words, "it's not yer daddy's Star Trek," what's the excuse?
Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi
I'm still not sure what excuse a movie that has made over $400 million dollars needs to make? Especially when you figure the latest film is going to make more money than any Star Trek film ever has.
I really am confused.
I'm still not sure what excuse a movie that has made over $400 million dollars needs to make? Especially when you figure the latest film is going to make more money than any Star Trek film ever has.
I really am confused.
Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi
Hardly. Over the decades, Krypton has figured prominently in the character development of Superman, with everything from his search for a greater understanding of his origins to his place among humans, etc. Its not just some diving board the plot uses to get him from point A to B.
Hardly. Over the decades, Krypton has figured prominently in the character development of Superman, with everything from his search for a greater understanding of his origins to his place among humans, etc. Its not just some diving board the plot uses to get him from point A to B.
Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi
What is the thread title asking? The industry has different standards now. In the 1980s, 400 million would have been fantastic, now--in the shadow of the world spanning superhero films, a long-lived concept such as Star Trek put through the glitter grinder of JJ should be able to attract the very audience nuTrek set out to capture--the kind of people (beyond die-hards and fanboys) who fill the theatres to see the bigger fantasy films.
What is the thread title asking? The industry has different standards now. In the 1980s, 400 million would have been fantastic, now--in the shadow of the world spanning superhero films, a long-lived concept such as Star Trek put through the glitter grinder of JJ should be able to attract the very audience nuTrek set out to capture--the kind of people (beyond die-hards and fanboys) who fill the theatres to see the bigger fantasy films.
Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi
None at all, obviously. Some of the TOS-Onlies just won't let go of the hope that at some point Abrams will fail, on the ridiculous premise that if this happens Paramount will return to making entertainment of the kind they enjoyed decades ago.
None at all, obviously. Some of the TOS-Onlies just won't let go of the hope that at some point Abrams will fail, on the ridiculous premise that if this happens Paramount will return to making entertainment of the kind they enjoyed decades ago.
Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi
I'd say that's more the idea of Krypton/the occasional bad guy (Zod/Doomsday/etc) from Krypton than the methodology by which Superman's parents got him onto the rocket. Perhaps it's just personal opinion, but I'd say most of the great Superman stories don't linger too heavily on what Jor-El was doing leading up to Krypton blowing up. Hell, All-Star Superman, generally considered on of the greatest Superman stories ever, did the origin as: http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-1pIkhj0WtVY/T3E_hJwVuUI/AAAAAAAAHSg/hrjVwRb5DZc/s1600/allstar.jpg
I'd say that's more the idea of Krypton/the occasional bad guy (Zod/Doomsday/etc) from Krypton than the methodology by which Superman's parents got him onto the rocket. Perhaps it's just personal opinion, but I'd say most of the great Superman stories don't linger too heavily on what Jor-El was doing leading up to Krypton blowing up. Hell, All-Star Superman, generally considered on of the greatest Superman stories ever, did the origin as: http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-1pIkhj0WtVY/T3E_hJwVuUI/AAAAAAAAHSg/hrjVwRb5DZc/s1600/allstar.jpg
Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi
I gotta be honest, I don't know anyone whose ever thought Trek had the potential to stand with the billion dollar films. As big a Trek homer as I am, I thought the film would do $600 million worldwide. I saw lots of posts that put the total at between $450-650 million worldwide. No one I know thought Into Darkness was a film that was going to do the same business as Iron Man/Superman. So I'm not exactly shocked that Trek is in the tier below them when it comes to box-office performance.
Futuristic action/sci-fi generally doesn't sell as well as contemporary action/sc-fi.
I gotta be honest, I don't know anyone whose ever thought Trek had the potential to stand with the billion dollar films. As big a Trek homer as I am, I thought the film would do $600 million worldwide. I saw lots of posts that put the total at between $450-650 million worldwide. No one I know thought Into Darkness was a film that was going to do the same business as Iron Man/Superman. So I'm not exactly shocked that Trek is in the tier below them when it comes to box-office performance.
Futuristic action/sci-fi generally doesn't sell as well as contemporary action/sc-fi.
Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi
As I said in the other thread, I think a good zombie alien invaders movie has a $600-700m potential.
I don't think Trek will ever do a billion, but I do think it has a higher ceiling than either ST09 or STiD would lead to believe.
As I said in the other thread, I think a good zombie alien invaders movie has a $600-700m potential.
Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi
Is the bit in parentheses an explanation for the preceding part ?
And that's your opinion. Objectively it seems to be doing fine. And in terms of story, it's entirely subjective whether one thinks a story is good or not.
I don't think there's a stigma at all. And there's 400 million+ reasons why I think so.
Is the bit in parentheses an explanation for the preceding part ?
And that's your opinion. Objectively it seems to be doing fine. And in terms of story, it's entirely subjective whether one thinks a story is good or not.
I don't think there's a stigma at all. And there's 400 million+ reasons why I think so.