Starship Size Argument™ thread

[trevanian]

Not to restart this, but just as information, the following is a quote from the film's cinematographer in AMERICAN CINEMATOGRAPHER magazine:
“The shape of the Enterprise is perfectly captured in the anamorphic frame, and so is the geography of the ship’s bridge,” he states. “For this film, we did a bit of a makeover on the ship [by making it bigger], but we’ve kept the essential symmetry and feeling of it.”

 

[EJD1984]

The choice to make the windows larger instead of more numerous was a deliberate one. In Star Trek: The Art of the Movie there is this concept illustration of the Enterprise with more, and smaller, windows:

This goes back to an old comment that it's the windows that is the largest cause of the size issues.

Personally I would of rather had this version. It would have given the ship a real sense of massive scale.

 

[Kevman7987]

The choice to make the windows larger instead of more numerous was a deliberate one. In Star Trek: The Art of the Movie there is this concept illustration of the Enterprise with more, and smaller, windows:

This goes back to an old comment that it's the windows that is the largest cause of the size issues.

Personally I would of rather had this version. It would have given the ship a real sense of massive scale.

To tell you the truth, I am okay with the ship becoming double the size of ships from the Prime timeline.

What bothers me is the (IMO) half-assed way they did it. Maybe the smaller windows do look weird as would the addition of more windows, but they could have at least shrunk the airlock ports to a reasonable size. Due to the way they doubled the ship size, the airlock ports are now 14(ish) feet in diameter!

And why is the Enterprise traveling through gelatin in this picture?!

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Due to the way they doubled the ship size, the airlock ports are now 14(ish) feet in diameter!

I don't have a problem with airlocks that can pass equipment larger than people.

 

[BillJ]

Due to the way they doubled the ship size, the airlock ports are now 14(ish) feet in diameter!

And why is the Enterprise traveling through gelatin in this picture?!

Sounds consistent though. Scotty comments the airlock on the Vengeance is four meters. Starships simply have larger hatches in the Abramsverse.

 

[WarpFactorZ]

Scotty comments the airlock on the Vengeance is four meters.

No, Scotty says the airlock is about four SQUARE METRES in area. It's a circle, so the area is Pi*r^2. That gives a diameter of 2.25m, or about 7.5 feet. That's consistent with the size of the TMP airlocks.

 

[Kemaiku]

Then again, it's a small cargo airlock for something to pass equipment through to that cargo bay, a generic one for machinary etc, not a larger personnel one.

 

[WarpFactorZ]

Then again, it's a small cargo airlock for something to pass equipment through to that cargo bay, a generic one for machinary etc, not a larger personnel one.

Huh? It's the exact size for people because it really isn't for people, but for special teeny, tiny cargo?

 

[F. King Daniel]

What bothers me is the (IMO) half-assed way they did it. Maybe the smaller windows do look weird as would the addition of more windows, but they could have at least shrunk the airlock ports to a reasonable size. Due to the way they doubled the ship size, the airlock ports are now 14(ish) feet in diameter!

Take a look at this:

And just for fun, here is the entire lobby/plaza with a 2379.75' Enterprise and an 8' corridor ceiling height. Keep in mind that this is Tobias Richter's Enterprise model and not ILM's, and a guess of the set scale.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

Scotty comments the airlock on the Vengeance is four meters.

No, Scotty says the airlock is about four SQUARE METRES in area.

And he's probably wrong. Apart from being visibly larger than that anyway (as you can see when the security guy gets blown out of it) a 7 foot hatch is small enough that Khan and Kirk would have to be practically holding hands to fit through it. Although they are side by side, they are not QUITE close enough to touch each other; one or both of them should be dead.

FWIW, the novelization renders the line as "four meters" and not "four square meters." So Scotty's probably just exaggerating to make a point (he tends to do that, you know).

 

[WarpFactorZ]

And just for fun, here is the entire lobby/plaza with a 2379.75' Enterprise and an 8' corridor ceiling height. Keep in mind that this is Tobias Richter's Enterprise model and not ILM's, and a guess of the set scale.

I actually used the set schematics, and with an 8' ceiling height, the plaza bridge is about 9m long, and the dome is probably about 16m across. That puts the ship at around 450m.

By the way, in your "stacked plaza" diagram above, the windows on the rim fall between decks. Also, the dome doesn't cover out to the branching corridors. It extends just over the circular (wrap-around) corridor. So, you've scaled the plaza too small.

 

[F. King Daniel]

I actually used the set schematics, and with an 8' ceiling height, the plaza bridge is about 9m long, and the dome is probably about 16m across. That puts the ship at around 450m.

Show us, please. Enough vague claims.

By the way, in your "stacked plaza" diagram above, the windows on the rim fall between decks.

As I said, estimated corridor height and a fan-made Enterprise model.

Also, the dome doesn't cover out to the branching corridors. It extends just over the circular (wrap-around) corridor. So, you've scaled the plaza too small.

I didn't include the branching corridors. The scale ia written on the diagram.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

And just for fun, here is the entire lobby/plaza with a 2379.75' Enterprise and an 8' corridor ceiling height.

It seems to me you have the plaza itself a little bit too wide in this diagram. My impression is that the corridors themselves fit ENTIRELY beneath the dome with room to spare and that the top level is actually more of a wide catwalk, probably with some benches or couches for people to look up at the stars planetarium style.

I think it would work better -- especially in relation to the bridge deck -- if you shrunk it down a bit (of course, you did it "just for fun" but there's my two cents ).

 

[F. King Daniel]

It's kind of hard to describe, but I think the row of lights around the edge of the dome seen in the top picture is the outer ring of lights around the ceiling of each oval corridor (these lights are shown on the plan view diagram). I didn't cut the top off the uppermost deck in the side view to reflect this.

Here's the set, if anyone else wants to give it a go:

Sadly there isn't a higher-definition version available.

 

[Belz...]

I actually used the set schematics, and with an 8' ceiling height, the plaza bridge is about 9m long, and the dome is probably about 16m across. That puts the ship at around 450m.

Which, even if true, isn't 300m.

 

[trevanian]

And why is the Enterprise traveling through gelatin in this picture?!

Made me think of INNERSPACE, though the shots in that were a little more clear I think. Maybe concept art for the abrams version of IMMUNITY SYNDROME or ONE LITTLE SHIP?

 

[throwback]

I know that aesthetically that the "plaza" looks COOL. What would be the in-universe explanation for this "plaza"? I am not being facetious here; I am attempting to understand this ship.

 

[BillJ]

I know that aesthetically that the "plaza" looks COOL. What would be the in-universe explanation for this "plaza"? I am not being facetious here; I am attempting to understand this ship.

I guess it's purpose is likely to impress people who haven't seen that type of structure on a starship before. Remember, in the first film, Pike called the Enterprise "our newest flagship".

So in-universe and out, its' function is to look "COOL".

 

[Locutus of Bored]

I know that aesthetically that the "plaza" looks COOL. What would be the in-universe explanation for this "plaza"? I am not being facetious here; I am attempting to understand this ship.

If power to the whole ship were lost (similar to TNG - Disaster) it would give you the ability to access all decks on the saucer. I'm guessing there's probably some sort of ladder or emergency slide/chute access in the sides somewhere.

It might also be the central atrium around which the main computer core is wrapped, with entrances to the computer core access rooms along the rim.

 

[BillJ]

If power to the whole ship were lost (similar to TNG - Disaster) it would give you the ability to access all decks on the saucer. I'm guessing there's probably some sort of ladder or emergency slide/chute access in the sides somewhere.

It might also be the central atrium around which the main computer core is wrapped, with entrances to the computer core access rooms along the rim.

Your guesses are much better than mine.