Why a reboot was necessary (IMHO)

[Jon1701]

Personally, I would have done a full on reboot. No messing about.

None of this alternate universe stuff. I mean, it virtually is a full reboot - they just won't say it out loud.

Pretty much how I feel. Yes, Trek needed to be rebooted to be commercially viable, but instead of doing a clean reboot they're still clinging to the Prime Universe by thin threads with all this alternate timeline stuff and Nimoy Spock who has taken a solemn vow never to discuss his timeline, unless someone's asking. Then he'll make an exception just this once.

Without a full on reboot the left side of my brain still does the mental gymnastics of how this all fits into canon but the right side of the brain just tells me to shut up and watch the movie. All the little differences in treknology throb like a splinter stuck in my foot that I can't get out and I'm trying to ignore.

If they'd just pressed the restart button you could have had anything - (a female spock, a chimpanzee in sickbay...Klingons on roller skates) and it really wouldn't have mattered as long as it was a good movie.

 

[Opus]

Trek needed this, no matter if it was a partial reboot or a full reboot. Trek became stale under Rick Berman's watch. Once Trek established how it was going to write and produce shows in the 3rd season of TNG, it never deviated far from it. It became television paint-by-numbers: Teaser - credits - build-up to the end of Act 1 - lather - rinse - repeat.

Even the TNG movies had the same storytelling and style as the shows. And they looked cheap on the big screen.

TV and movies began changing their style and substance, but Trek stayed the same. ENT was 22nd Century TNG, with the same production values and storytelling as 1990 TNG.

Abrams brought Trek into the 21st Century. Finally.

 

[Robert_T_April]

I love Roddenberry but he wasn't perfect and even original Trek was improved by his fellow writers, Bill Shatner's suggestions, and even the writers on occasion. In any case, I think the movies aren't PERFECT but they've breathed life into the franchise and got people to start thinking about Star Trek in new ways.

Then again, I'm just waiting for the Klingon War we've been denied since when they were first introduced.

TNG's episode Yesterday's Enterprise, which partially took place in an alternate timeline, gave us a small glimpse of what a war with the Klingons could be like. It's one my favorite TNG episodes. Very cool and thought provoking.

I wouldn't mind seeing a major conflict with Klingons as the main plot in the next film at all. As a matter of fact, I feel that it has be done! No time travel...no Cumberbatch, just a great story centered around the Klingons.

 

[The Wormhole]

If they'd just pressed the restart button you could have had anything - (a female spock, a chimpanzee in sickbay...Klingons on roller skates) and it really wouldn't have mattered as long as it was a good movie.

I think I like all of those ideas.

 

[Charles Phipps]

FYI, my double accent on the writers was a joke (a comment on Gene sometimes ignoring their contribution) not a repetition.

And yes, MORE KLINGONS!

 

[throwback]

The argument in favor of a reboot is dealt a serious blow I think when the writers have to resurrect scenes from a older movie to complete their new movie. The nature of a reboot is that it is original, as much as one can be original. Chris Nolan's The Dark Knight Rises is a complete reboot of the Joker-Batman dynamic, and it doesn't used scenes from Tim Burton's Batman to complete the film.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

This way is working - they threw a sop to the hardcore trekkies.

 

[Charles Phipps]

The argument in favor of a reboot is dealt a serious blow I think when the writers have to resurrect scenes from a older movie to complete their new movie. The nature of a reboot is that it is original, as much as one can be original. Chris Nolan's The Dark Knight Rises is a complete reboot of the Joker-Batman dynamic, and it doesn't used scenes from Tim Burton's Batman to complete the film.

I think the general statement has been it was 75% a good movie and 25% rip-off.

 

[The Wormhole]

The argument in favor of a reboot is dealt a serious blow I think when the writers have to resurrect scenes from a older movie to complete their new movie. The nature of a reboot is that it is original, as much as one can be original. Chris Nolan's The Dark Knight Rises is a complete reboot of the Joker-Batman dynamic, and it doesn't used scenes from Tim Burton's Batman to complete the film.

I think the general statement has been it was 75% a good movie and 25% rip-off.

The problem with That Scene being copied is that it is one of TWOK's most memorable scenes even among non-Trek fans. And aside from switching Kirk and Spock, it's practically copied exactly. Everyone I know is complaining about it, even casual fans.

 

[Charles Phipps]

Yeah, it passed from "homage" (Keeping Khan is enough of an homage) to rip off then.

 

[BillJ]

Yeah, it passed from "homage" (Keeping Khan is enough of an homage) to rip off then.

Rip off or not, I really enjoyed the "Into Darkness" take on the scene. Actually, I think the "Into Darkness" was the more emotionally resonant one.

Whether they ripped it off or not, they played it pitch perfect.

 

[Set Harth]

Chris Nolan's The Dark Knight Rises is a complete reboot of the Joker-Batman dynamic, and it doesn't used scenes from Tim Burton's Batman to complete the film.

The Joker isn't even so much as mentioned in the film.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

Chris Nolan's The Dark Knight Rises is a complete reboot of the Joker-Batman dynamic, and it doesn't used scenes from Tim Burton's Batman to complete the film.

The Joker isn't even so much as mentioned in the film.

You know he means The Dark Knight. Don't be obnoxious.

 

[The Wormhole]

Yeah, it passed from "homage" (Keeping Khan is enough of an homage) to rip off then.

Rip off or not, I really enjoyed the "Into Darkness" take on the scene. Actually, I think the "Into Darkness" was the more emotionally resonant one.

Whether they ripped it off or not, they played it pitch perfect.

Personally, I found the STID version had no emotional resonance since the entire time I'm thinking of "Wow, they're doing this? Seriously?" It's an inferior imitation of one of Star Trek's greatest scenes.

 

[Ovation]

Yeah, it passed from "homage" (Keeping Khan is enough of an homage) to rip off then.

Rip off or not, I really enjoyed the "Into Darkness" take on the scene. Actually, I think the "Into Darkness" was the more emotionally resonant one.

Whether they ripped it off or not, they played it pitch perfect.

Personally, I found the STID version had no emotional resonance since the entire time I'm thinking of "Wow, they're doing this? Seriously?" It's an inferior imitation of one of Star Trek's greatest scenes.

Different strokes…I concur with BillJ (and I'm old enough to have seen WOK in the cinema first run, lest anyone think I'm too young to appreciate older movies). I quite like WOK but STiD has nothing to feel inferior over in comparison--for me. I don't expect everyone to feel that way, of course, but I've yet to talk to anyone (as opposed to post online) who viewed it differently than I did in any significant fashion. So that's one set of anecdotes offset by another.

 

[Jon1701]

Yeah, it passed from "homage" (Keeping Khan is enough of an homage) to rip off then.

Rip off or not, I really enjoyed the "Into Darkness" take on the scene. Actually, I think the "Into Darkness" was the more emotionally resonant one.

Whether they ripped it off or not, they played it pitch perfect.

Personally, I found the STID version had no emotional resonance since the entire time I'm thinking of "Wow, they're doing this? Seriously?" It's an inferior imitation of one of Star Trek's greatest scenes.

The first time I watched the movie, I hated it. Hated, hated it. Totally took me out of the moment.

The second time I saw that it did fit in the context of the movie and actually worked quite well as a scene, but any emotional impact had long since been trampled into the ground...

 

[Quantum_Penguin]

I'd just like everyone who loves nuTrek to stop telling me how fresh everything is. This reboot features the same goddamn tropes and plot points everyone complained were dragging down storytelling in the Prime universe ten years ago. At the end of the day, STID was basically a pastiche of TWoK and TUC, and they even managed to throw in TSFS at the last minute. There's nothing wrong with making a pastiche, and it's nice that Star Trek is in the spotlight again, but don't tell me the Prime universe was devoid of new stories or that what Abrams has done represents necessary change.

 

[M'Sharak]

I'd just like everyone who loves nuTrek to stop telling me how fresh everything is.

If you can provide a detailed list of all posts in which people have told you directly that everything in nuTrek is fresh, I'll ask them if they wouldn't mind terribly not telling you that anymore. If they're only stating an opinion generally, however, there's not a great deal I'll be able to do for you.

...but don't tell me the Prime universe was devoid of new stories or that what Abrams has done represents necessary change.

Pretty much the same applies here. 'Cause people stating opinions about stuff is something which tends to happen here a lot.

 

[mos6507]

Yeah, it passed from "homage" (Keeping Khan is enough of an homage) to rip off then.

Rip off or not, I really enjoyed the "Into Darkness" take on the scene. Actually, I think the "Into Darkness" was the more emotionally resonant one.

Whether they ripped it off or not, they played it pitch perfect.

It's phoney emotionalism. The only reason it works is because people play back the scene from Khan in their heads. It doesn't stand on its own, nor does it suit a story of two glorified cadets who have barely really gotten to bond.

The first time I watched the movie, I hated it. Hated, hated it. Totally took me out of the moment.

The second time I saw that it did fit in the context of the movie and actually worked quite well as a scene, but any emotional impact had long since been trampled into the ground...

This is the stockholm syndrome at work. It's the sort of thing people who are uber-fans of bands say when they buy a so-so album, but don't want to admit to themselves that it's so-so. They play it over and over again until they will-themselves into liking it.

If something is good, it's gonna seem good the very first time around.

 

[LobsterAfternoon]

It's phoney emotionalism. The only reason it works is because people play back the scene from Khan in their heads. It doesn't stand on its own, nor does it suit a story of two glorified cadets who have barely really gotten to bond.

Oh come on. Putting aside Kirk, who for all we know had a college degree under his belt and came to the Academy basically as an OCS prospect, Spock is far from a glorified cadet. He was already at least a Lt. Commander by the middle of the 1st movie.