Starship Size Argument™ thread

[Kevman7987]

Hmm. I thought the VFX guys just made the ship whatever size looked cool for the specific scene.

I had read somewhere that the ship was originally designed to be a little bigger than the TMP version in size, but was scaled up double when the '09 shuttle landing scene looked too small. So now we have a ship twice(ish) the size of the original but with the external details being too big for its size (two deck tall windows in some areas, and decks without any windows at all).

I tend to think of the ship in that smaller size, so my little toy TOS and REBOOT Enterprises can battle each other while being to equal scale.

 

[Belz...]

There's no "balcony", as some else said, and there certainly aren't two corridors on top of one another. Why doesn't someone use their Photoshop prowess and show me where there are two decks, or a balcony, or a movie theatre, or whatever else people see in that picture.

Because no one cares at this point. The evidence is there, and the official size is there. That you can find instances of inconsistent scaling, assuming those are even that, doesn't mean the rest of the evidence dissapears.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

Why doesn't someone use their Photoshop prowess and show me where there are two decks, or a balcony, or a movie theatre, or whatever else people see in that picture.

"Why doesn't someone do all the work for me... again, so I can ignore and keep right on saying the same thing... again."

Why should people have to waste their time at this point when the writing's on the wall with you? King Daniel has already posted a ton of evidence for his point of view and you haven't budged an inch. I've posted a bunch of evidence and you haven't budged an inch. It's obviously a pointless exercise.

Otherwise, I recommend you go back and see the movie again, if for no other reason that to watch that one scene.

Yes, because I'm going to go back and pay to see a movie again just for one scene because of a stupid online argument.

I've already seen the movie twice, thanks. And if I see it again, it will be to enjoy the movie, not to win at internets.

 

[Opus]

I got to see the movie a second time today and I've come to really like this new Enterprise. I think the leaving spacedock scene is just a thing of beauty!

I've come to a conclusion re: Enterprise' size:

TOS Enterprise was WAY TOO SMALL!!!!

Yep, JJ got it right.

 

[WarpFactorZ]

Why doesn't someone use their Photoshop prowess and show me where there are two decks, or a balcony, or a movie theatre, or whatever else people see in that picture.

"Why doesn't someone do all the work for me... again, so I can ignore and keep right on saying the same thing... again."

Because I'm not the one saying there is more than one deck visible there.

Why should people have to waste their time at this point when the writing's on the wall with you? King Daniel has already posted a ton of evidence for his point of view and you haven't budged an inch. I've posted a bunch of evidence and you haven't budged an inch. It's obviously a pointless exercise.

So, why don't you add the above to your pictorial evidence showing the two or three decks visible in the hull breach.

 

[BillJ]

Unless there's money riding on it, I don't understand why the size of the ship is a big deal.

 

[Belz...]

TOS Enterprise was WAY TOO SMALL!!!!

Too small for what ? I don't mind either size, myself. The old one worked. No one ever complained about it. They wanted the new one to be larger. Fine with me.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

Because I'm not the one saying there is more than one deck visible there.

No, you're the one arguing that the size of the ship as quoted by the designers and backed up by visual evidence in the film is wrong, and you've done it without providing a shred of evidence of your own.

So, why don't you add the above to your pictorial evidence showing the two or three decks visible in the hull breach.

Add what? You can plainly see the alternating light and dark rings around the saucer edge that represent the decks in the picture I already provided. I'm not arguing that there are three to four decks in that hull breach exclusively, I'm arguing that there are at least four and probably five decks on the saucer rim.

 

[WarpFactorZ]

You can plainly see the alternating light and dark rings around the saucer edge that represent the decks in the picture I already provided.

Oh, I see them now:

I'm not arguing that there are three to four decks in that hull breach exclusively, I'm arguing that there are at least four and probably five decks on the saucer rim.

The hull breach takes up half the thickness of the saucer rim, and there is one deck visible. Ergo, the other half of the saucer rim is made up of either another deck, or four other decks staffed by munchkins and Keenser's family.

 

[Opus]

TOS Enterprise was WAY TOO SMALL!!!!

Too small for what ? I don't mind either size, myself. The old one worked. No one ever complained about it. They wanted the new one to be larger. Fine with me.

Now that I see the difference with the new movie, TOS Enterprise
is equivalent to an old German u-boat. It's a tin can in outer space. They had no right going out into deep space in such a tiny ship.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

Even though it is as big as the Enterprise D

Not by half, actually. It's actually much closer to the Enterprise-C, but in terms of actual volume it's only about 60% the size of the Enterprise-D.

Which makes me think the areas around the outer edge of the dish are communal/recreational or possibly even some kind of hot bunking areas for the junior crew whereas on the Enterprise D they are individual and spacious cabins.

I don't know about "hot bunking" but the X-box game depicted crew quarters as spacious multi-level communal living areas reminiscent of college dormitories with a large public space in the middle.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

Why doesn't someone use their Photoshop prowess and show me where there are two decks, or a balcony, or a movie theatre, or whatever else people see in that picture.

"Why doesn't someone do all the work for me... again, so I can ignore and keep right on saying the same thing... again."

Because I'm not the one saying there is more than one deck visible there.

What difference would that make, unless you think the saucer section only has one deck?

So, why don't you add the above to your pictorial evidence showing the two or three decks visible in the hull breach.

Because the breach shows one CORRIDOR with sufficient space above and below it for additional deck space. Why it doesn't show additional CORRIDORS above and below is anyone's guess.

Although, I disagree with Locutus in that five decks seems a bit much. Especially based on the bottom image, I think it works better with FOUR decks, with #1 and #5 filling those "half decks" and #2 and #4 squeezing out #3. That seems consistent with what we're seeing in the top image: the exposed corridor is on Deck Two, and there's room for two additional corridors in the saucer beneath it (one at the lower row of windows, one directly under that).

 

[Gonzo]

I have had a closer look and it may in fact be 2 floors, I have used the top picture you posted Locutusofbored and I have added highlights to show the floors (amateurish using paint I know).

I should have made the writing bigger as well but you get the idea. If you save it to PC and then zoom in you can see it clearly.

 

[Belz...]

Now that I see the difference with the new movie, TOS Enterprise
is equivalent to an old German u-boat. It's a tin can in outer space. They had no right going out into deep space in such a tiny ship.

The thing was three hundred meters long, man. People don't seem to grasp how huge that is in terms of volume.

The hull breach takes up half the thickness of the saucer rim, and there is one deck visible.

I'm sorry but that is false. First, the picture's very dark, but that is not half the thickness, there.

 

[WarpFactorZ]

I have had a closer look and it may in fact be 2 floors, I have used the top picture you posted Locutusofbored and I have added highlights to show the floors (amateurish using paint I know).

Nope. The corridors are not the same height as the windows. In fact, if you look through the windows, you can see only one of the three rows of "rectangle" patterns on the walls. Your red arrow is also pointing at what I assume you think is a floor, but it isn't.

 

[Gonzo]

I have had a closer look and it may in fact be 2 floors, I have used the top picture you posted Locutusofbored and I have added highlights to show the floors (amateurish using paint I know).

Nope. The corridors are not the same height as the windows. In fact, if you look through the windows, you can see only one of the three rows of "rectangle" patterns on the walls. Your red arrow is also pointing at what I assume you think is a floor, but it isn't.

I don't mind if you agree or not WarpfactorZ, it looks like whats left of a floor to me and it is in line with the idea of 4 floors in the saucer rim as many here have shown.

The area exposed by the damage is far too large (height) an area to be just one floor, whether you like it or not.

 

[Belz...]

The point is that almost all the evidence points to a larger ship, WarpFactorZ. Do you deny that the shuttlebay we see in both movies is way too large for a 300m ship ?

 

[WarpFactorZ]

I don't mind if you agree or not WarpfactorZ, it looks like whats left of a floor to me and it is in line with the idea of 4 floors in the saucer rim as many here have shown.

The area exposed by the damage is far too large (height) an area to be just one floor, whether you like it or not.

You can clearly see a single corridor through that hole. The three rows of rectangles along the circular wall is unmistakable, and as the ship pans by in the film, it is plain as day. I don't know what else to tell you.

In fact, someone show me where it is conclusively established that there are four or five decks along the saucer rim. 'Cause I don't think it ever was. Everyone is attacking me because I refuse to believe this, but in reality the deck plan of the Enterprise you're defending isn't canon.

 

[beamMe]

I have had a closer look and it may in fact be 2 floors, I have used the top picture you posted Locutusofbored and I have added highlights to show the floors (amateurish using paint I know).

Nope. The corridors are not the same height as the windows. In fact, if you look through the windows, you can see only one of the three rows of "rectangle" patterns on the walls. Your red arrow is also pointing at what I assume you think is a floor, but it isn't.

I don't mind if you agree or not WarpfactorZ, it looks like whats left of a floor to me and it is in line with the idea of 4 floors in the saucer rim as many here have shown.

The area exposed by the damage is far too large (height) an area to be just one floor, whether you like it or not.

Gonzo, you are, of course, right.

What we see in those pictures is probably no different than this: http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/tmp2/tmphd0549.jpg

 

[Gonzo]

I don't mind if you agree or not WarpfactorZ, it looks like whats left of a floor to me and it is in line with the idea of 4 floors in the saucer rim as many here have shown.

The area exposed by the damage is far too large (height) an area to be just one floor, whether you like it or not.

You can clearly see a single corridor through that hole. The three rows of rectangles in the circular hall is unmistakable, and as the ship pans by in the film, it is plain as day. I don't know what else to tell you.

I know you have latched onto the 1 or 2 levels in the saucer rim to back up your idea that the ship is still only 300m long or so, we saw in the promotional media before the first films release that there are more than that.

At the end of the day I would have been fine if the ship had been the same size as the TOS version but it clearly is not, I don't know what else to tell you.