Miranda Class VS Refit Constitution class round 2

[TheSubCommander]

Imagine if a Miranda Class ship and a refit Constitution class ship, meet in open space, for battle. Both ships have federation captains with tactical and strategic skills and experience equaling that of Kirk, and both have seasoned crews of equal caliber. Neither captain or crew have the codes to the other ship

No Nebulas to cause interference, no planets or moons to hide behind, and no black holes or quasars or phenomena to get in the way. Just open, dark space. Both ships have a full compliment of torpedos and phaser banks are fully charges. Both ships are at their peak of technological capability during the same year as TWOK.

Now imagine that there is a Q behind this match up, and this Q wants to know who wins and who loses. The Q will ensure neither ship will stray into space that is any different than open, unoccupied space. The battle will go on until there is a winner and there can be only one victor. Both must stand toe to toe, and retreat is not an option. One ship must destroy the other, or the Q will destroy both ships, and each ship knows this.

Which ship wins?

 

[T'Girl]

The winner will be determined by the judges on Britain's Got Talent.

 

[Belz...]

So basically your question is "which of those two ship classes is stronger ?" ? Why not ask that ?

Miranda seems a bit more advanced and has more combat-oriented weaponry, I guess. It's hard to tell.

 

[Faria]

i think miranda class is better armer and a little more advanced than constitution refit.

Miranda has more torpido lunchers, those to phaser cannons plus the same normal phaser of the con. refit

 

[TheSubCommander]

So basically your question is "which of those two ship classes is stronger ?" ? Why not ask that ?
.

I dunno. Because I had fun writing out the scenario??

 

[Belz...]

Ok. :P But just open space is boring for a battle.

 

[anh165]

Connie wins with a late round KO

 

[BillJ]

Connie wipes the floor with the Miranda. The only reason Reliant had a shot against the Enterprise is because Admiral Kirk was an idiot.

 

[Belz...]

Connie wipes the floor with the Miranda. The only reason Reliant had a shot against the Enterprise is because Admiral Kirk was an idiot.

It's the reason they took a beating, but the idea was that the Reliant was a more advanced starship. It's also more heavily armed, so even in a fair fight it might not be a Constitution win.

 

[SchwEnt]

A lot of this was covered in a previous "Miranda as combat monster" thread.

There may be differences between the two ship classes beyond visually counting photorp tubes and phaser banks.

If you wanna accept the ships as "heavy cruiser" or "frigate" or "light cruiser", there may be differences.

Sure, you can count the phaser banks and compare numerical superiority. But maybe the Constitution class phasers are an equivalent of a battleship 15" gun while the Miranda class phasers are equivalent to a cruiser's 8" gun.

Maybe the Miranda's torpedo pod carried a smaller less powerful torpedo type than the Constitution class.

Perhaps the deflectors were also different, the Constitution had battleship-like 12" of armor type versus the Miranda 10" of armor type.

And don't even start with the mega-phaser cannon thing...

 

[anh165]

A lot of this was covered in an previous "Miranda as combat monster" thread.

There may be differences between the two ship classes beyond visually counting photorp tubes and phaser banks.

If you wanna accept the ships as "heavy cruiser" or "frigate" or "light cruiser", there may be differences.

Sure, you can count the phaser banks and compare numerical superiority. But maybe the Constitution class phasers are an equivalent of a battleship 15" gun while the Miranda class phasers are equivalent to a cruiser's 8" gun.

Maybe the Miranda's torpedo pod carried a smaller less powerful torpedo type than the Constitution class.

Perhaps the deflectors were also different, the Constitution had battleship-like 12" of armor type versus the Miranda 10" of armor type.

And don't even start with the mega-phaser cannon thing...

Yes, and that's why I think the Connie class (circa 2282) is still the king.

Her shields and power systems may still be superior to the Miranda class and that actual phaser power outputs may be different between the two classes.

 

[General_Phoenix]

Probably not canon, but in the old games like Klingon Academy, the Miranda always seemed to be fairly weaker than a Constitution Class. I never felt they were ever on equal footing, and let's face it, a lot of people like me enjoyed trying to recreate a Wrath of Khan type battle. I think they may have been slightly more powerful in Starfleet Command, mainly because the use of missiles could really even the battle against a stronger opponent.

 

[Belz...]

If you wanna accept the ships as "heavy cruiser" or "frigate" or "light cruiser", there may be differences.

The Miranda's not really lighter than the Constitution, though. Maybe a bit, but in total volume, say, it's about the same. It just looks smaller because it's more compact. Anyway, I don't remember where I read this, but the Reliant in TWOK was meant to be more advanced. Whether this translates as "more powerful" is a matter for debate.

Sure, you can count the phaser banks and compare numerical superiority. But maybe the Constitution class phasers are an equivalent of a battleship 15" gun while the Miranda class phasers are equivalent to a cruiser's 8" gun.

Again, from TWOK, the weapons and hulls seem evenly matched. Of course we don't have much to go by.

Maybe the Miranda's torpedo pod carried a smaller less powerful torpedo type than the Constitution class.

Maybe it carried Cracker Jack boxes.

 

[Crazyewok]

I always thought the Miranda as a light Crusier, simple easy to upgrade and refit hence it long life.

The constitution a purpose built heavy cruiser with heavy weapony and sheilds built for the time due to its use for long range exploration.

I thing in the 2270's a Miranda verse a Constitution would result in a win for the Constitution but with heavy damage. By 2300's I think Miranda's would wipe the floor.

 

[BillJ]

Connie wipes the floor with the Miranda. The only reason Reliant had a shot against the Enterprise is because Admiral Kirk was an idiot.

It's the reason they took a beating, but the idea was that the Reliant was a more advanced starship. It's also more heavily armed, so even in a fair fight it might not be a Constitution win.

Is any of this in the actual movie or just shit folks have made up after the fact?

 

[R. Star]

Considering the sheer size of the two ships, it's fairly safe to assume the Constitution would have a higher power output, which would translate to more weapon power, more shield power and so forth. Not to mention a larger crew which means better damage control. The Miranda would seem to have the edge in maneuverability, which coupled with it's smaller profile and seemingly wider weapons arc would make the contest interesting.

The Constitution was shown to have aft torpedoes in Enterprise's In a Mirror Darkly, so you could make an argument either way if the refit did or didn't, because we didn't see it. Almost every Trek video game features them having an aft torpedo and it's a boneheaded design flaw if it didn't. Even if it did though, most of it's firepower is concentrated towards the sides and bow, and not the rear. I seem to remember a display(in ST3 I think) clearly calling Enterprise a Heavy Cruiser and Krudge's crew did say "Federation battle cruiser" when annoucing Enterprise's approach. So Reliant would seem to be a frigate or light cruiser at that time.

I'd have to give the edge to the Constitution is a straight up fight. Though a Miranda may well be able to evade and escape from one if it isn't forced into battle. Kirk's blame or lack thereof aside, Reliant was more powerful than Enterprise because Khan got in the first hit with shields down and that was the determining factor in each subsequent engagement.

 

[Crazyewok]

Connie wipes the floor with the Miranda. The only reason Reliant had a shot against the Enterprise is because Admiral Kirk was an idiot.

It's the reason they took a beating, but the idea was that the Reliant was a more advanced starship. It's also more heavily armed, so even in a fair fight it might not be a Constitution win.

Is any of this in the actual movie or just shit folks have made up after the fact?

Well there is not much to go from the movies.

And you cant really use the 24th century versions as they will be refited with 24th century tec.

All that can be really used in the technical mannuals, books ect

By the way they should really write some cannon techinical manuels or make some of the ones floating about cannon.

 

[BillJ]

All I know is that Scotty says they only have enough power for a "few shots" (referring to phasers) and with those few shots they were able to send Reliant on the run with its tail tucked between its legs.

 

[R. Star]

That was from "just the battery" and a few well placed shots with the shields down can all but disarm a ship. A few well placed shots with the shields down crippled Enterprise after all.

 

[BillJ]

That was from "just the battery" and a few well placed shots with the shields down can all but disarm a ship. A few well placed shots with the shields down crippled Enterprise after all.

But Reliant's shots weren't coming from the battery. In my opinion, if Kirk raises shields, Khan doesn't stand a chance.