When did voyager go wrong?

[Guy Gardener]

^^^Literally speaking, it was only Torres and Kim who were engaged in reproductive activities with the Caretaker.

Functionally Torres was just a woman of color, so that was (sadly)appropriate to the character as treated in most drama today. But this may explain why Kim is so detested?

Maybe there were no Asians on the Equinox?

6 months earlier he stuck his sporositian winkle into that ships allotted crew as well.

"Humans! Humans again?! I'm sick of raping Humans!!"

Which is possibly why only Kim and Torres got the business end of his cumstick, since he'd already made his way Bacchanalianly through a mostly human crew to no fruitful results.

You have to wonder why Equinox's Doctor didn't find a cure for spacespunk and give it to the Ocampa? Or did Ransom never make it that far and unwittingly left crew to die on Ocampa?

What a jerk.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

No one was in stirrups. They were suspended. Needles were inserted into their abdomens though.

 

[Guy Gardener]

But it was everyone?

Oh god.

I get it now.

It's like with a firing squad where half to ninety percent of the shooters have their rifles loaded with blanks, but no bugger knows who is a murderer and who is is playing with blanks, even though one of them must have killed the traitor.

Peace of mind.

So 142 crew are tied into these artificial insemination machines, and Caretaker pushes the button 142 times. Twice he raped some random nobody, and 140 times nothing happened.

Peace of mind.

 

[R. Star]

So 142 crew are tied into these artificial insemination machines, and Caretaker pushes the button 142 times. Twice he raped some random nobody, and 140 times nothing happened.

Peace of mind.

Until you get a STD that has giant green wart things growing on you.

 

[Guy Gardener]

I assumed the rape machine production line cleaning would have been automated?

"Oh, no, I do understand, but I have no choice. There just is not enough time left."

Good lord!

Caretaker worked out that he could cycle through more aliens, and maybe make a baby, if he redacted the janitor droids and turned off the automatic steam scrubbers inbetween mass rapes.

That's insidious.

Which is only a little worse than one of us using the same condom for a month.

 

[R. Star]

You'd think a being so advanced and powerful he can pull people from all around the galaxy would be able to clone himself. Though I guess he'd miss out on raping Harry, Torres and who knows how many other.

 

[Guy Gardener]

You ever hear the (sitcom) joke "After civilization falls, we're going to have to rebuild, to make lots of babies, but we're going to be safe about it, we're going to need a lot of condoms."

I also remember some sitcom where the fellah forgot that he had had a vasectomy after months of trying to get his wife pregnant... It might have been the John Laroquette Show, which was of course about the continuing story of a recovering alcoholic who had lost decades to black out drinking... "OH! That was a Vasectomy? Hell! I thought that was when I got my tonsils out. Look, I'm really quite enjoying myself, can we tell my wife about this next month?"

Caretaker was so addled from dementia that "he" couldn't remember if "he" was a man or a woman which is why "he" hedged "his" bets by shagging a boy and a woman during the course of Caretaker. Seriously the old coot rogered Kim, psychically assessed if forty-watt was preggers, then penetrated the Klingon with his indistinguishablehood just in case "he" had been a man after all to stick a bun in her perfectly shaped oven.

 

[Anwar]

You'd think a being so advanced and powerful he can pull people from all around the galaxy would be able to clone himself. Though I guess he'd miss out on raping Harry, Torres and who knows how many other.

Being reminded that this guy was an intergalactic Rapist makes me think that the story would've been better if he was just an outright villain more than anything else.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

Being reminded that this guy was an intergalactic Rapist makes me think that the story would've been better if he was just an outright villain more than anything else.

Well he did play the banjo.

 

[Dream]

You'd think a being so advanced and powerful he can pull people from all around the galaxy would be able to clone himself.

I don't think he was all powerful. Death still came for his ass.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

His crusty rock like ass.

 

[Guy Gardener]

He'd been looking after the Ocampa for a thousand years.

Who knows how old he was when he started, and who knows when Susperia got sick of the sight of him and his banjo and just bolted.

New tack.

Janeway and Ransom both started at Caretaker and and they both managed to trek 30 thousands of light years in 6 terran years. Ransom blamed most of it on a lucky wormhole, lets assume that wasn't a clever lie to cover up their hobby as vivisectionists.

They both charted completely different courses home.

I've always blamed this on Equinox not being able to stay in open space for as long as Voyager, so they had to plan a more circuitous route hopping between closer supply potential destinations and having to completely ignore trips between two stars Voayger was more than Capable of. Equinox just wasn't robust enough to follow Voyagers more direct home.

That's what I've always said.

But what if the opposite was true?

How about this?

Equinox charted the more direct/faster route to the Alpha Quadrant, and then 6 months later Kathryn who scribbled an identical course home hours after the events of Caretaker asked Neelix what he thought of their proposed route?

He laughed at her and explained that she would lose half her crew in the first week if she kept strictly to this path without actually saying the words "Krotonian Guard" and then got out a marker pen and showed Captain Janeway a more indirect route that did intersect with valuable unclaimed worlds, and hubs of trade and economy which welcomed strangers from far away, while still inching them noticeably towards Federation Space.

It's Neelix's fault.

If not for Neelix, Janeway would have caught up with Ransom by year two, since they both had the same training, and were in possession of roughly the same technology, where Ransom would have been weathered but yet not completely broken by the Delta Quadrant, and he'd probably have smoothened out the rough edges of Janeways catch up where from she'd probably be insessently finding some glaring clues that she wasn't the first Starfleet Captain to explore out that far.

Yes.

Blame Neelix.

If not for Neelix, Voyager would have caught up with Equinox, found that lucky wormhole that allowed them to skip any and all Borg adventures completely, while the combined resources of the two ships working in unison would have meant that life in their little fleet would have been delightful and safe, as they pottered on to Earth.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

Voyager went wrong when they decided not to commit to their exciting premise.

The original premise was just "Lost in Space", though.

And Lost In Space had a good premise. It just had campy, moronic scripting and production.

I was excited after Caretaker, but then they decided to throw away the survival aspect and the tension between the crew and make it TNG lite.

The survival stuff partially didn't make sense (Honestly, WHY can't they make new torpedoes?!) and the tensions between the crews was never going to last more than 2 seasons or so. Especially once DS9 killed off the rest of the Maquis.

Yes they should have been able to make new torpedoes, but the massive energy reserves it takes to power a starship, the constant repairs, the morale problems. They were never low on power after the fifth episode, the damage they took in one episode never persisted to the next episode, single crewmembers dying never reduced the number of people on the ship.

And the Maquis immediately accepted Starfleet regulations, only addressing that in Learning Curve and then disappearing completely. They only addressed the difficulty of maintaining Starfleet morality when you're isolated and alone in one very early episode then they never questioned it again.

 

[Anwar]

And Lost In Space had a good premise. It just had campy, moronic scripting and production.

Okay, Voyager suffered from "Gilligan Syndrome". It had a premise that basically meant the one major goal of the series could never be accomplished without ending the show because they never bothered giving the show any other major plots beyond that.

And even the "Lost in Space" folks realized that having the crew all be antagonistic to one another (The Robinsons vs Dr Smith) wouldn't work after a while. The reason they made Smith a buffoon and ended the internal conflict was because they realized it was unsustainable. Same for the Fleeter/Maquis conflict, that wouldn't have lasted more then 1 and a half seasons even if they went for long-term conflict.

Yes they should have been able to make new torpedoes, but the massive energy reserves it takes to power a starship, the constant repairs, the morale problems. They were never low on power after the fifth episode, the damage they took in one episode never persisted to the next episode, single crewmembers dying never reduced the number of people on the ship.

Well, they go by Suns and Nebulas all the time. Those are easy sources of power. It would've been nice to see them do this, but saying they had no way of replenishing power is...well, wrong.

They also shot themselves in the foot by having the "No Support" thing in the premise. No Support means they can't ever fix any damage to the ship, and no fixing means the show would be over in less than a season.

As for morale, this sort of thing has happened before to Kirk and Picard. They both returned home safely and quickly, so they knew there was a precedent.

And the Maquis immediately accepted Starfleet regulations, only addressing that in Learning Curve and then disappearing completely.

See above, the Maquis conflict wouldn't have realistically lasted very long anyways.

 

[Third Nacelle]

There didn't need to be open conflict between the Maquis and Starfleet, but some evidence on screen that they were different kinds of people. It was ridiculous that they all jumped into SF uniforms at the end of Caretaker.

It was sort of ridiculous that the Starfleet personnel continued to wear uniforms past the first season or so, but that's another issue altogether.

I can see that in Voyager's situation that everybody would be willing to work together and be friendly, and conflict between them would be kind of silly, what I cannot understand is how Chakotay and the Maquis were so willing to immediately assimilate into Starfleet.

 

[Guy Gardener]

If the ship wasn't constantly maintained, balanced "everywere" it blows up or stops forever.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

There didn't need to be open conflict between the Maquis and Starfleet, but some evidence on screen that they were different kinds of people.

Yes. I might have joined the Maquis but there is no way I could just fit into Starfleet. If I was sucked into Janeway's crew, given a uniform and schedule and a list of Starfleet regulations and expectations I would be utterly fail. When I was younger I'd probably end up in the brig, now I'd probably weasel my way around until I found a way to stay under Starfleet radar and just putter.

I would never adjust.

 

[R. Star]

If I was a Maquis I'd be utterly pissed and resentful towards Janeway. Especially when she goes on one of her rants about Federation values and that a replicator is more valuable than my life, because I've been conscripted into her personal military and told by her that she's willing to sacrifice my life for values I don't believe in.

 

[Guy Gardener]

They were given realistic commissions, along with the subsequent privileges and benefits.

It probably evened out.

Do you think someone like Picard or Riker would let that scum do any thing more important than swab the decks?

 

[R. Star]

They were given realistic commissions, along with the subsequent privileges and benefits.

It probably evened out.

Do you think someone like Picard or Riker would let that scum do any thing more important than swab the decks?

Other than Chakotay and Torres were any Maquis given more important tasks than that and making shuttles?