When did voyager go wrong?

[stj]

Structurally, Voyager was The Odyssey. The books of the Odyssey are not the serial story of the crew. There isn't even any seriality to Odysseus' adventures. You could rearrange their order or omit one or more as you wish.

No, there is no inherent storyline in the premise that Voyager betrayed. I know this may sound shockingly categorical, but it is simply an error to think so.

Anwar is right. The only way that the premise would have demanded serialization of the crew conflicts is if they were profoundly inimical to each other, such as Cardassians or Rommulans. And given the tech shown previously, a survivalist epic was a self-contradicting premise.

 

[Anwar]

There was nothing fundamentaly wrong with the premise, the problem was they wrote basically VOY as TNG v2.

IMO, there were some conceptual problems with the series. They chose the wrong people to have conflict with (The Maquis just did not have enough differences with the Feds for it to work) and them knowing exactly how to get home drastically undercut the potential of the series. If you want a "Lost Ship" story you should be willing to go all the way and make them truly LOST.

 

[Charles Phipps]

I felt there were a number of plot ideas that could have been better developed. Also, not only did the Starfleet and the Maquii crews became buddy-buddy too fast. They also befriended some of the new aliens too fast. Most notably, the species 8472. These guys started out at being quite terrifying to meet up with. And that idea lasted just a few episodes. Then they befriend the species when the Voyager crew finds a replica of Starfleet headquarters set up by this alien. That was a huge disappointment as it immediately killed off new plot ideas for this species to make life difficult for Voyager.

Yeah, but isn't that what Star Trek is about?

 

[Guy Gardener]

There are different Governments in charge of different eras of Federation History.

Sure, it's the same type of government, sitting in the same building, and the Vulcans, as well as a few others may hang around for Centuries, but it's literally completely different administrative bodies deciding how to rule the Federation.

And by that, I mean what drugs are put in the food, water and recycled air to control behaviour.

Sometimes they may want Zombies in times of peace, but gearing up to war, the guy in charge wants spunk and pep from his, or her, or it's citizen soldiers.

 

[Vulcan Logician]

Overused? I never got sick of them. Long may they shine.

Hear! Hear! I share your love of these characters, but maybe a few Kim, Torres, or even Chakotay episodes mixed in there a bit would have helped even things out. (In the final 3 seasons I mean). As much as I liked 7 and the Doctor, they were too much in the front and center near the end of the show.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

I agree with everyone who says it became the EMH and 7 show. It's just I loved the EMH and 7 show so for me it was a happy turn of events.

I like how you say, "or even Chakotay". Now there was sidelining. Kim you expect, the Engineer, well they always have to bellow up from the bowels of the ship about what they canna do but the first officer?

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I agree with everyone who says it became the EMH and 7 show. It's just I loved the EMH and 7 show so for me it was a happy turn of events.

That would be like the most awesome sitcom ever.

 

[Vulcan Logician]

I agree with everyone who says it became the EMH and 7 show. It's just I loved the EMH and 7 show so for me it was a happy turn of events.

I like how you say, "or even Chakotay". Now there was sidelining. Kim you expect, the Engineer, well they always have to bellow up from the bowels of the ship about what they canna do but the first officer?

You are so funny Teacake. I would probably not still be participating in this board if it were not for your presence and humor.
I'm being sincere. (A comment I only need to make because we are surrounded by sarcastic assholes, with whom I do NOT identify-- or at least it sometimes seems that way)

Yes, but even so, I liked Chuckles. (I know I am in a minority here). He may have seemed bland, dull and predictable to some. But to me he was solid and dependable. Good character! Just like Kim.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

I like Chakotay well enough, he is very easy on the eyes. He's just sorta dull at times and of course the thought of him touching the precious that way is jarring. Don't worry lots of people like him, there are plenty of J/C in this forum, in fact I think that is the current dominant ship for Our Captain.

:: waves to the ship from a more exotic shore ::

Oh and thanks for the compliment, this is the best forum on the board. We need the more caustic folk, they are fun to poke from time to time.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

When Voyager was on, I became alienated from the attempts to use the series to atone what was perceived to be wrong with Star Trek in general. TNG was too PC and lacked continuity, and DS9 was stuck in place, and overall the series was too optimistic. I didn't mind the introduction of 7 of 9, but I hated the whole exploration of "individuality," which sounded like trying to inject Data with huge doses of Libertarianism. To a lesser extent, the same flaws crept into DS9 (hello, Defiant), but may have been minimized because of the split of writing talent between the two shows. Odo's struggle to be lovable and Nog's search for respectability (the former narrative annoyed me, while I enjoyed the latter) didn't consume the show the way 7 or 9's development did. And sadly, Voyager was set up for many personal journeys: Chakotary, Torres, Kim and Paris were all set up to earn redemption, but at some point it was not longer addressed. In the end, Enterprise suffered most, trying to emulate the spirit and style of the original series but find some place for the "edge" that made sci-fi in the naughts sellable.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

The exploration of humanity is a bedrock Trek theme. I don't think any more time is spent on 7's search for her humanity than Data's.

 

[Guy Gardener]

I feel cheated that Kim took his humanity for granted.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

But he explored his fake alien-ity in Favorite Son. Just imagine if that had continued for a few seasons.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Or possibly imagine if Seven got her humanity under her belt by Day of Honour?

 

[Bad Thoughts]

The exploration of humanity is a bedrock Trek theme. I don't think any more time is spent on 7's search for her humanity than Data's.

Of course it was. However, the focus was not on humanity as a whole, but almost exclusively on one aspect thereof. It sounded to me as if the show was trying to distance itself from the humanism of TNG. Perhaps the pendulum needed to swing the other way. Regardless, the pervasive and literal references to "individuality" were as subtle as a sledgehammer.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

It's Star Trek, no one ever really gets their humanity under their belt. Where would all the speeches go?

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

The exploration of humanity is a bedrock Trek theme. I don't think any more time is spent on 7's search for her humanity than Data's.

Of course it was. However, the focus was not on humanity as a whole, but almost exclusively on one aspect thereof. It sounded to me as if the show was trying to distance itself from the humanism of TNG. Perhaps the pendulum needed to swing the other way. Regardless, the pervasive and literal references to "individuality" were as subtle as a sledgehammer.

Individuality is going to be THE issue for anyone freed from the Borg. Why would anyone need to be subtle about it? The Borg sure aren't subtle in their elimination of it.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

Individuality is going to be THE issue for anyone freed from the Borg. Why would anyone need to be subtle about it? The Borg sure aren't subtle in their elimination of it.

Because the Borg have successfully integrated all other aspects of humanity, or because the writers were hamstrung into a one-dimensional developmental path for a major character?