so ST 11 is another timeline [alt-reality]

[beamMe]

Re: so ST 11 is another timeline

I'm beginning to think this is completely different Universe,even before the Narada showed up. There are too many inconsistencies in technology for this just to be a different branch of the timeline from when the Narada shows up.

If that were the case, it would make...

Spoiler: Into Darkness

No sense whatsoever that Spock Prime would warn his younger self about Khan, because if the timelines were truly separate, then Khan may never have existed or could be as different from Khan Prime as Mirror Brunt was from his usual self.

Plus the entire in-story justification for finding the Botany Bay and thawing Khan earlier - unless it was a timeline spinning off from Narada's incursion in 2233, there would be no need nor such effort expended by the writers in explaining how and why it happened differently to "Space Seed".

Nor would there be models of the NX-01 Enterprise and NX-Alpha on Admiral Marcus' desk if the technology was truly any different.

But this can indeed be a completely different timeline than the one we knew before, even pre 2233.
As all time-travel episode deal with either pre-destination paradoxes or a "restoring" of the timeline, no major event is changed significantly. In-universe, what we see as the prime-timeline is the culmination of all those time-travel events.

In the new timeline all the major "historical" events also occurred, but without tampering from the TOS/TNG/DS9/VOY-time-travellers, resulting in the year 2233 when we first see the Kelvin; a timeline where technology advanced slightly different/faster and the people are slightly different but similar.

 

[Opus]

Trek messed with the timeline so much, they obliterated DTI with the last change...

 

[JarodRussell]

hmmmm, with such a massive incident (destroying Vulcan) in the timeline, how come the temporal devision of Startrek didnt do something? hell, in the episode 'Relativity' (Voyager) the temporal guys were out to stop just one ship from being destroyed. ...

hmmm got an idea for a script to put things right here

For the same reason they didn't travel back in time to prevent Adm. Janeway from getting VOY home 16 years early.

In my book, they did. It's all a matter of perspective. Audiences get to see the alternate outcomes. The timeline gets still reset by the time cops.

 

[Kemaiku]

Didn't the Temporal Cold War pretty much decimate all of the future time traveling factions by the start of Enterprise season 4? the war ended, the DTI were back to being observational paper pushers.

 

[Anduril]

Didn't Star Trek 09 establish that this is an alternate reality? Are we still arguing about this?

 

[mattman8907]

Didn't Star Trek 09 establish that this is an alternate reality? Are we still arguing about this?

apparently so. these are some of the reasons i don't do forums.

 

[Anduril]

I just saw Heat.

 

[Hober Mallow]

Re: so ST 11 is another timeline

^
Warp drive is only one example. IMO, there are many other things that are too different for it simply to be written off as due to a brief never seen since encounter with the Narada.

Which is why I said...

Which is fair enough considering Into Darkness. But I'm happy with the explanation offered by the writers.

Star Trek has never been all that internally consistent, even within various series. Why should I hold J.J. Abrams to a standard I never held Gene Roddenberry or Rick Berman too?

Because JJ Abrams is the incumbent. We can't let him off the hook until he's done with Trek and someone else takes over.

The only thing, IMO, JJ Abrams is "on the hook" for is telling a great story, not reinforcing a group fantasy that Star Trek is actually real.

Now I didn't actually care much for his first movie because I didn't think much of the story, and, as you say, I won't let him off the hook for producing crap. But I have no problem with Abrams and the writers updating aspects of a nearly 50-year-old series to be a little more relevent to today. In fact, Trek needs to be updated. I'd hate for the films to start resembling those fanwank movies on youtube.

 

[Opus]

I just saw Heat.

Gaffigan!

 

[-Brett-]

hmmmm, with such a massive incident (destroying Vulcan) in the timeline, how come the temporal devision of Startrek didnt do something? hell, in the episode 'Relativity' (Voyager) the temporal guys were out to stop just one ship from being destroyed. ...

hmmm got an idea for a script to put things right here

1. It's a reboot. The whole point is to ditch that nonsense.

2. It was a stupid idea to begin with. It contradicted dozens of time travel episodes in which no time cops from the future interfered and it was used as nothing more than deus ex machina.

 

[Set Harth]

I just saw Heat.

Gaffigan!

It is only because of the power of Google that I understand that.

 

[Tribble puncher]

Re: so ST 11 is another timeline

I'm beginning to think this is completely different Universe,even before the Narada showed up. There are too many inconsistencies in technology for this just to be a different branch of the timeline from when the Narada shows up.

Agreed, the new trek universe has nothing to do with the "prime universe" and even if Nero and Spock hadn't shown up, the events in this universe would have still unfolded differently. IMO anyway, Strange enough, Nero showing up actually lead to events in this universe (Kirk and co. being aboard the enterprise) being more like the Prime Universe then they would have been.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Re: so ST 11 is another timeline

^
Warp drive is only one example. IMO, there are many other things that are too different for it simply to be written off as due to a brief never seen since encounter with the Narada.

If we declared "alternate reality" every time there was an inconsistency in Star Trek we'd have more Universes than Imelda Marcos had shoes.

 

[The Wormhole]

Re: so ST 11 is another timeline

^
Warp drive is only one example. IMO, there are many other things that are too different for it simply to be written off as due to a brief never seen since encounter with the Narada.

If we declared "alternate reality" every time there was an inconsistency in Star Trek we'd have more Universes than Imelda Marcos had shoes.

Unfortunately, the alternate timeline explanation always gets used to explain every error, and has since well before the Abramsverse came on the scene.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Re: so ST 11 is another timeline

^
Warp drive is only one example. IMO, there are many other things that are too different for it simply to be written off as due to a brief never seen since encounter with the Narada.

If we declared "alternate reality" every time there was an inconsistency in Star Trek we'd have more Universes than Imelda Marcos had shoes.

Unfortunately, the alternate timeline explanation always gets used to explain every error, and has since well before the Abramsverse came on the scene.

So there are alternate timelines with a James R. Kirk, one where Data graduated in the class of '78 and one where Saavik looks like Robin Curtis?

 

[Phily B]

Re: so ST 11 is another timeline

^
Warp drive is only one example. IMO, there are many other things that are too different for it simply to be written off as due to a brief never seen since encounter with the Narada.

If we declared "alternate reality" every time there was an inconsistency in Star Trek we'd have more Universes than Imelda Marcos had shoes.

Unfortunately, the alternate timeline explanation always gets used to explain every error, and has since well before the Abramsverse came on the scene.

Thank you parallels

 

[HOoftheKinshaya]

Re: so ST 11 is another timeline

I'm beginning to think this is completely different Universe,even before the Narada showed up. There are too many inconsistencies in technology for this just to be a different branch of the timeline from when the Narada shows up.

Agreed, the new trek universe has nothing to do with the "prime universe" and even if Nero and Spock hadn't shown up, the events in this universe would have still unfolded differently. IMO anyway, Strange enough, Nero showing up actually lead to events in this universe (Kirk and co. being aboard the enterprise) being more like the Prime Universe then they would have been.

I disagree. Primarily because JJ Abrams has in numerous interviews stated this was the original timeline up until the day of Kirk's birth. You may not like the delivery or some inconsistencies that show up but to refute it would be telling the author you know the story he wrote regardless of what he says the story was.

Abrams on the alternate time line:

ABRAMS: "Here’s the thing… I think the key to that was, first of all, it was one of those things that not everyone even cares about or understands the timeline of it all. The notion that when this one character, Nero, arrives in his ship, that basically the timeline is altered at that moment, so everything forward is essentially an alternative timeline. That is not to say that everything that happened in The Original Series doesn’t exist. I think, as a fan of movies and shows, if someone told me the beloved thing for me was gone, I would be upset. But we didn’t do that. We’re not saying that what happened in that original series wasn’t good, true, valid, righteous and real. Let people embrace that. We’re not rejecting that. That, to me, would have been the big mistake. We’re simply saying that, "At this moment, the very first scene in the first movie, everything that people knew of Star Trek splits off into now another timeline.

 

[The Wormhole]

Re: so ST 11 is another timeline

If we declared "alternate reality" every time there was an inconsistency in Star Trek we'd have more Universes than Imelda Marcos had shoes.

Unfortunately, the alternate timeline explanation always gets used to explain every error, and has since well before the Abramsverse came on the scene.

So there are alternate timelines with a James R. Kirk, one where Data graduated in the class of '78 and one where Saavik looks like Robin Curtis?

Actually, the novel Q-Squared really did present Where No Man Has Gone Before as an alternate timeline where the Enterprise was commanded by James R. Kirk. I'm serious.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Peter David. I'll pass.

 

[Destructor]

The department of Temporal Investigations probably didn't exist prior to Kirk's five-year mission, so probably don't concern themselves with branches in the timeline created before they were, since those branches already 'happened' in their own history, so interfering with them would change the past of the timeline they were in, which would itself be a violation. Besides, it wasn't implied the DTI had the power to FIX violations, they just monitored them.