so ST 11 is another timeline [alt-reality]

[stew58]

hmmmm, with such a massive incident (destroying Vulcan) in the timeline, how come the temporal devision of Startrek didnt do something? hell, in the episode 'Relativity' (Voyager) the temporal guys were out to stop just one ship from being destroyed. ...

hmmm got an idea for a script to put things right here

 

[BillJ]

Re: so ST 11 is another timeline

hmmmm, with such a massive incident (destroying Vulcan) in the timeline, how come the temporal division of Star Trek didn't do something? hell, in the episode 'Relativity' (Voyager) the temporal guys were out to stop just one ship from being destroyed. ...

hmmm got an idea for a script to put things right here

Why haven't the Department of Temporal Investigations fixed most of the botched time-travel shenanigans in Star Trek? If you poke around you'll see that the timeline actually branched at 2233, when Nero first appears. At that point there is the original timeline and the new one created by his incursion. Think of a fork in the road.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Re: so ST 11 is another timeline

They saw how much more awesome the resulting timeline was and decided to keep it.

 

[SalvorHardin]

Re: so ST 11 is another timeline

Dulmur and Lucsly are still working on a fix. Stand by.

 

[ConRefit79]

Re: so ST 11 is another timeline

I'm beginning to think this is completely different Universe,even before the Narada showed up. There are too many inconsistencies in technology for this just to be a different branch of the timeline from when the Narada shows up.

 

[BillJ]

Re: so ST 11 is another timeline

I'm beginning to think this is completely different Universe,even before the Narada showed up. There are too many inconsistencies in technology for this just to be a different branch of the timeline from when the Narada shows up.

Which is fair enough considering Into Darkness. But I'm happy with the explanation offered by the writers.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Re: so ST 11 is another timeline

There's no indication that the DTI of the prime timeline could ever know about the Abrams version. From that DTI's perspective, nothing happened except two ships vanished into a black hole, which subsequently closed up, and the ships were never seen again. Nobody can ever know where or when those ships went. Thus, there's no way to know about the existence of the branched timeline thus created.

The DTI of the Abrams timeline, however, might be curious...

 

[ConRefit79]

Re: so ST 11 is another timeline

I'm beginning to think this is completely different Universe,even before the Narada showed up. There are too many inconsistencies in technology for this just to be a different branch of the timeline from when the Narada shows up.

Which is fair enough considering Into Darkness. But I'm happy with the explanation offered by the writers.

Well remember, they only wrote what Spock was trying to explain the events of ST09. But if you want to buy 20yrs is enough time for them to create warp drive capable of going from Earth to Vulcan in 30 minutes, fine by me. At the end of ST:TMP, Scotty said it would take the refitted Enterprise 3 days to reach Vulcan.

 

[BillJ]

Re: so ST 11 is another timeline

I'm beginning to think this is completely different Universe,even before the Narada showed up. There are too many inconsistencies in technology for this just to be a different branch of the timeline from when the Narada shows up.

Which is fair enough considering Into Darkness. But I'm happy with the explanation offered by the writers.

Well remember, they only wrote what Spock was trying to explain the events of ST09. But if you want to buy 20yrs is enough time for them to create warp drive capable of going from Earth to Vulcan in 30 minutes, fine by me. At the end of ST:TMP, Scotty said it would take the refitted Enterprise 3 days to reach Vulcan.

Four days.

Warp drive has always been as fast as the plot requires (the Enterprise travels a thousand light-years in twelve hours in That Which Survives, to the center of the galaxy in a few hours in The Final Frontier, from the Romulan Neutral Zone to Earth in the blink-of-an-eye in First Contact). So I'm not too concerned about inconsistencies in speed from episode/movie to episode/movie.

 

[Xaios]

Re: so ST 11 is another timeline

A simpler explanation is just that they'd probably rather avoid any "Department of Time Travel" shenanigans at all cost, because that partiular element was already incredibly inconsistent within already established lore.

For example, in TNG - A Matter of Time, why didn't the Temporal Incursion Department of whatchamawhosit from the 29th century stop the 26th century historian from traveling back into the 22nd century? Then after that, why didn't they stop Berlingoff Rasmussen from stealing his ship and coming to the 24th century? Further still, why did they allow Picard to strand him in the 24th century after his time ship returned to the 22nd century? Did the time historian who was previously trapped in the 22nd century find the pod and return to the 26th century, assuming he was even still alive? If not, did agents from the 29th century travel to the 22nd century and return the pod to the 26th century, where it originated?

Yeah, pre-JJ Trek was no stanger to playing fast and loose with time.

 

[Phily B]

Re: so ST 11 is another timeline

The whole time travel stuff in Voyager and later Enterprise was really dumb.

 

[BillJ]

Re: so ST 11 is another timeline

The whole time travel stuff in Voyager and later Enterprise was really dumb.

Not so sure it was dumb. But it wasn't very well thought out...

 

[F. King Daniel]

Re: so ST 11 is another timeline

I'm beginning to think this is completely different Universe,even before the Narada showed up. There are too many inconsistencies in technology for this just to be a different branch of the timeline from when the Narada shows up.

If that were the case, it would make...

Spoiler: Into Darkness

No sense whatsoever that Spock Prime would warn his younger self about Khan, because if the timelines were truly separate, then Khan may never have existed or could be as different from Khan Prime as Mirror Brunt was from his usual self.

Plus the entire in-story justification for finding the Botany Bay and thawing Khan earlier - unless it was a timeline spinning off from Narada's incursion in 2233, there would be no need nor such effort expended by the writers in explaining how and why it happened differently to "Space Seed".

Nor would there be models of the NX-01 Enterprise and NX-Alpha on Admiral Marcus' desk if the technology was truly any different.

At the end of ST:TMP, Scotty said it would take the refitted Enterprise 3 days to reach Vulcan.

A shakedown cruise to Vulcan is a lot different to a maximum warp rescue mission.

 

[ConRefit79]

Re: so ST 11 is another timeline

^
Warp drive is only one example. IMO, there are many other things that are too different for it simply to be written off as due to a brief never seen since encounter with the Narada.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Re: so ST 11 is another timeline

^Like the US wasn't changed at all by one brief terriorist attack on 9/11?

 

[BillJ]

Re: so ST 11 is another timeline

^
Warp drive is only one example. IMO, there are many other things that are too different for it simply to be written off as due to a brief never seen since encounter with the Narada.

Which is why I said...

Which is fair enough considering Into Darkness. But I'm happy with the explanation offered by the writers.

Star Trek has never been all that internally consistent, even within various series. Why should I hold J.J. Abrams to a standard I never held Gene Roddenberry or Rick Berman to?

But since your going to hold Abrams to one anyway...

It was more than one brief encounter with the Narada.

* In 2233, Starfleet loses the U.S.S. Kelvin. There are survivors and certainly sensor logs of the incident.

* In 2258, the Klingons lose 47 starships to the Narada. The same year Starfleet loses seven starships and the planet Vulcan to the same vessel.

Plus, we simply don't know if there were any other incidents in the intervening twenty-five years.

 

[Mach5]

Re: so ST 11 is another timeline

hmmmm, with such a massive incident (destroying Vulcan) in the timeline, how come the temporal devision of Startrek didnt do something?

Braga-Trek is that way >>>

 

[The Wormhole]

Re: so ST 11 is another timeline

^
Warp drive is only one example. IMO, there are many other things that are too different for it simply to be written off as due to a brief never seen since encounter with the Narada.

Which is why I said...

Which is fair enough considering Into Darkness. But I'm happy with the explanation offered by the writers.

Star Trek has never been all that internally consistent, even within various series. Why should I hold J.J. Abrams to a standard I never held Gene Roddenberry or Rick Berman too?

Because JJ Abrams is the incumbent. We can't let him off the hook until he's done with Trek and someone else takes over.

 

[MacLeod]

hmmmm, with such a massive incident (destroying Vulcan) in the timeline, how come the temporal devision of Startrek didnt do something? hell, in the episode 'Relativity' (Voyager) the temporal guys were out to stop just one ship from being destroyed. ...

hmmm got an idea for a script to put things right here

For the same reason they didn't travel back in time to prevent Adm. Janeway from getting VOY home 16 years early.


It was a Tuesday.

 

[Xaios]

The Temporal Department agents were probably just really hungover that Monday after a crazy bender on the weekend.

"Man, I wish I could go back and stop myself from doing all those Tequila shots. Oh wait..."