STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

[Opus]

I don't know what's so hard to understand:

Kirk was born on the Kelvin shuttle and immediately promoted to Lt. Commander.

Sheesh! Why all the hub-bub?

 

[Xaios]

So you're text-book talking out of your ass.

That doesn't answer the question. It's based on all the info I've collected. And I'm glad cause I won't pay to see another, IMO, Nemesis.

Speaking as another person who hasn't seen the movie, your comparison to Nemesis really proves how little you seem to grasp about the new movie. You're hung up on the whole "heroic death sequence with Chekhov's Gun sitting on the mantle." There's more to both movies than that.

Here's the thing. For all the bad writing in Nemesis, its biggest sin was that it was BORING AS F***. With regards to STID, even its most vocal detractors aren't accusing it of being boring.

 

[BillJ]

For all the bad writing in Nemesis, its biggest sin was that it was BORING AS F***.

Yup. Though I do find that it's aging the best out of the four TNG movie outings.

 

[ConRefit79]

You're hung up on the whole "heroic death sequence....

Nope.

Spoiler: SPOILER

I'm hung up on how they chose to try and put their own stamp on Khan instead of being original. Then they lift and pervert entire scenes from ST:TWOK.

There are sins in ST productions I cannot forgive. And this is a biggie.

 

[Count Zero]

One scene - unless I missed something, it's been a while since I last saw TWOK. Also, it's spelled Khan - your spelling makes me think of a particular unsympathetic football player.

 

[BillJ]

You're hung up on the whole "heroic death sequence....

Nope.

Spoiler: SPOILER

I'm hung up on how they chose to try and put their own stamp on Kahn instead of being original. Then they lift and pervert entire scenes from ST:TWOK.

There are sins in ST productions I cannot forgive. And this is a biggie.

You do realize that it's been thirty-plus years since The Wrath of Khan? To me, revisiting a character thirty-years after he last appeared isn't a crime against humanity or creativity.

 

[Flake]

I think he means the scene in the warp core which is lifted entirely from TWOK and even recites the same lines but different characters speak them. I was not comfortable with it thats for sure!

 

[Xaios]

For all the bad writing in Nemesis, its biggest sin was that it was BORING AS F***.

Yup. Though I do find that it's aging the best out of the four TNG movie outings.

First Contact is still my favorite of the TNG films, but the one that I've personally found has aged the most gracefully is actually Generations.

Crazy, I know.

 

[BillJ]

I think he means the scene in the warp core which is lifted entirely from TWOK and even recites the same lines but different characters speak them. I was not comfortable with it thats for sure!

I may not be comfortable with it either. But I'm actually going to see the film before making that determination.

 

[BillJ]

For all the bad writing in Nemesis, its biggest sin was that it was BORING AS F***.

Yup. Though I do find that it's aging the best out of the four TNG movie outings.

First Contact is still my favorite of the TNG films, but the one that I've personally found has aged the most gracefully is actually Generations.

But I think we can all agree that they all have plot-holes big enough to fly the USS Vengeance through...

 

[StarMan]

One of the Talkbackers over at AICN put this up - love it.

Help Devin See STID!

Devin has seen it now and his review is one of the first ones I've read that I actually agree with:

http://badassdigest.com/2013/05/14/star-trek-into-darkness-spoiler-review

I agree wholeheartedly with his point regarding quibbles over internal consistency not being mere 'Trekkie nitpicks' but pretty spectacular holes in logic.

I've noticed a trend in this thread with people alluding to the slow and talky Trek of old. It's like, we've changed! We're not that tired, decrepit Trek anymore! We're hip, exciting and energetic now. So let's distance ourselves from the dated and dusty. I just get the vibe we should be so grateful for what we've got, because look at the budget dropped on this monster.

You know, Trek was old and tired. Trek needed a big kick in the posterior. Spock and Kirk chewing up time grating over the minutiae of intergalactic politics wasn't going to cut it. And this latest outing is certainly not that. But one thing this outing also isn't is smart. In fact, it's dumb. It's really dumb. Oh, switch of the logic centers of your brain and you'll be fine, as someone above said. Riiight.

And that's what gets me at the end. It's asking me to dumb myself down for... what, the good of the franchise? To make it more accessible? Is dumb a prerequisite for appealing to the masses? Well, no. A lot of dumb stuff does work for the masses, but often it's unabashedly dumb fluff. Fast and Furious or American Pie works great for me when I want some mindless entertainment. However, Trek was never that (for me, at least).

You'd think there were only two options: the talky and dusty Trek so many are put off by (and not without good reason) or vacuous product now hitting the cinemas. I don't favor either! God, imagine if they'd made an effort to craft a fun, exciting and intelligent spectacle. They had this amazing fictional Universe to play in with all that material to draw from, and the budget to basically do whatever they wanted. A shame the alternative to what we got is only old 'n dusty, right?

 

[Flake]

Even if the movie is rated 10% on RT Trekkies should go to see it! I remember many a time where I sat down in anticipation of my weekly dose of TV Trek only to be presented with a Ferengi episode or 'Spirit Folk' or 'Shades of Grey*' and so will anyone here over a certain age!

*I didn't see Shades of Grey first run because I am not old enough but I am sure many here did

Its all part and parcel of being a Trekkie!

 

[ConRefit79]

I think he means the scene in the warp core which is lifted entirely from TWOK and even recites the same lines but different characters speak them. I was not comfortable with it thats for sure!

Exactly.

But getting back to where this all started, Kirk is promoted from cadet to Captain against all common sense, in ST:09. Then demoted at the start of this film cause he's clearly not ready. But at the end of ST:ID, he was again in command. But in everything I've read, no where do I see he understands and accepts what he did was wrong. He simply gets rewarded for saving the day again.

 

[BillJ]

Like I said before, the Prime Directive lesson isn't one that Prime Kirk seemed to learn either.

 

[BillJ]

You know, Trek was old and tired. Trek needed a big kick in the posterior. Spock and Kirk chewing up time grating over the minutiae of intergalactic politics wasn't going to cut it. And this latest outing is certainly not that. But one thing this outing also isn't is smart. In fact, it's dumb. It's really dumb. Oh, switch of the logic centers of your brain and you'll be fine, as someone above said. Riiight.

I'm watching The Man Trap right now.

But Trek has always taken liberties with common sense and logic. It just grates on me when someone acts like Trek was this model series for enlightened people and that J.J. Abrams films are just fluff that shit on Roddenberry's vision.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

You know, Trek was old and tired. [/i]

No.

It was dead. Finished.

 

[Pauln6]

But one thing this outing also isn't is smart. In fact, it's dumb. It's really dumb. Oh, switch of the logic centers of your brain and you'll be fine, as someone above said. Riiight.

Double dumb ass on you. But this is it in a nutshell. Dumb people can enjoy smart films as long as they work on multiple levels. You don't have to get everything out that is in there to enjoy it. Smart people can enjoy dumb films if that's all they are looking for.

Trek's reputation for being smart may have been exaggerated but I certainly would never say that it was a dumb show. These movies have definitely lowered the bar unnecessarily low.

 

[BillJ]

These movies have definitely lowered the bar unnecessarily low.

Star Trek set that bar in 1966 during "The Naked Time" when during a critical orbit both the Chief Engineer and his Assistant (the only two on duty mind you) left because they were both called to the bridge.

That and Engineering only has one door...

 

[marksound]

You know, Trek was old and tired. Trek needed a big kick in the posterior. Spock and Kirk chewing up time grating over the minutiae of intergalactic politics wasn't going to cut it. And this latest outing is certainly not that. But one thing this outing also isn't is smart. In fact, it's dumb. It's really dumb. Oh, switch of the logic centers of your brain and you'll be fine, as someone above said. Riiight.

I'm watching The Man Trap right now.

But Trek has always taken liberties with common sense and logic. It just grates on me when someone acts like Trek was this model series for enlightened people and that J.J. Abrams films are just fluff that shit on Roddenberry's vision.

Yes, thank you.

And people, please. The "cerebral" thing that hardcore fans love to throw around is the one word that almost kept Trek from ever being aired in the first place.

This stuff is supposed to be fun, adventurous. Stop with the snobby attitude for crying out loud. Bringing in new fans only makes Trek stronger.

 

[Phily B]

I vaguely agree that it jumps from set piece to set piece and moves at such a pace a lot of the political and social commentary just gets lost in it.

But again, the rest of the Trek movies never let the plot get in the way at action...

The fact that he was an important ruler and the fact that he's 300 years out of his own time are just ignored.

This for example, I don't remember any of this from TWOK. He was just some bad ass dude with a vendetta. The whole review is pretty poor and I think he went into wanting to hate it, I think I saw him on some screenjunkies thing ragging on it before release. There is a portion of the fanbase who want to hate on it because its different - when its actually not that different other than being big budget.