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Do we take "fanon" too literally?

The worst fanon items are those that are made up by the fans, promulgated for years without any support from the show, then rewritten by the show - exactly like the "Spock is the first Vulcan in Starfleet" example of Lance's.

I was not around during the 1970s when Trek was only in reruns, and the fans had only their own ideas about character names and histories and "plot holes" that needed to be filled. I wasn't around when Franz Joseph was releasing blueprints for the Enterprise. I'm sure it was an exciting time, when the three seasons of TOS were the entire Trek universe, and fans were free to play in that universe to their heart's content. But to expect the producers to hold to fanon that developed in that void is unrealistic.
 
Canon in the precise sense of Star Trek. I thought you might have picked up on that, given the context.
What I mean is, "canon", as it gets thrown about in these here parts, is a largely fan-created/perpetuated thing. The creators rarely (if ever) bother to say "this part is real, this other part is made up" ...it's all as real as they decide it is on any given day. They declare a computer game or comic "official!" on one day, and ignore it completely the next. (Which I have no problem with.)
 
But it's never been a voluntary creative aim, not since the very first show. It just grows from all of the shows. Whatever the writers say is irrelevant since for the purposes of nailing what canon is (as opposed to fanon); it's whatever appeared on the screen. The only leeway is whether or not you include the movies. It's more amusing if we do since they tend to contradict themselves, the shows and other movies, as well as inventing lots of extra stuff which gets the fans tied in knots.
 
I don't take anything too literally. There is so much imagination exercised to explain the unexplained or to fill in story gaps, with some of it believable and a lot of it just personal preference. It's entertaining to see what people have to say, but I don't take it seriously to strive fervently to prove my point of view any more.

Funny thing is, many episodes have mistakes and conflicting information. Either one of them is right, or they're all right under "interpreted circumstances." All too often people try to "fit" it all in... I prefer to chalk up obvious mistakes and just move on. The Star Trek universe is far from perfect, so why bother trying to make it so? It's imagination, not reality.
 
Pft, even the show's creators, producers and writers can't come to a consensus on what is canon. Is it any wonder that "fanon" is just as messed up?

We're all people who can think for ourselves. If you want to accept fanon as part of our Star Trek experience do it. If you don't want to, fine don't. Regardless stop dickwaving if someone doesn't share the same opinion as you.
 
I was trying to think of examples of 'fanon' that were so all encompassing that people accepted them as fact even though they had never been stated as such on screen.

I can't think of anything in Star Trek, but a good example would be the slayer line running through Faith rather than Buffy after her first death.
 
It works both ways. There are those who follow a strict adherance that only that which is firmly established on screen should count.

But that is the definition of canon.

Still, there should be a little lee-way. Like on the Bolian issue, everything about them seems to imply they are Federation members, yet since it's never been explicitly stated on screen there are those who won't accept it. Although, admittedly it doesn't help matters that they originally weren't intended to be Federation members.

And how far do we take this anyway? What about characters who are named in the scripts, but are never identified by name in the episode. Best example, Picard's Cardassian torturer in Chain of Command played by David Warner is well known as Gul Madred, but that name is never actually spoken in the episode. If we follow strict adherance to canon that only that which is on screen counts, then he's just Cardassian Interragator or something and Gul Madred is a fanon name.

There comes a point where you do have to accept stuff as fact even if they're not established on screen.
 
Regarding the latinum business, I'm in the camp that says you can replicate all the liquid latinum or gold-pressed latinum you want. No limits.

The only thing is, replicators are not powered by fairy dust. They consume anti-matter. The whole reason latinum is used as a currency is that it costs more to replicate it than the resulting product is worth.
 
The worst fanon items are those that are made up by the fans, promulgated for years without any support from the show, then rewritten by the show - exactly like the "Spock is the first Vulcan in Starfleet" example of Lance's.

I was not around during the 1970s when Trek was only in reruns, and the fans had only their own ideas about character names and histories and "plot holes" that needed to be filled. I wasn't around when Franz Joseph was releasing blueprints for the Enterprise. I'm sure it was an exciting time, when the three seasons of TOS were the entire Trek universe, and fans were free to play in that universe to their heart's content. But to expect the producers to hold to fanon that developed in that void is unrealistic.

While I agree it was unrealistic to expect that, it sure would have been nice. Would it have killed the producers of Enterprise to find a story adviser who had a good knowledge of the fanon that was developed during those years, and throw us a bone? Manny Coto did it in the last season. While Berman was in charge for the first 3 seasons, a lot of us kept going "What?! But that's not... Aw come oooonn!!" :lol:
 
Regarding the latinum business, I'm in the camp that says you can replicate all the liquid latinum or gold-pressed latinum you want. No limits.

The only thing is, replicators are not powered by fairy dust. They consume anti-matter. The whole reason latinum is used as a currency is that it costs more to replicate it than the resulting product is worth.

That makes a lot of sense.
 
Fanon is sometimes held to more tightly than canon. Witness the claims that latinum is not replicable, something that was never mentioned in any show, but is endlessly repeated.

The claim shows up in Memory Alpha's article too, but fails to specifcally cite the source for the statement.
It is conjectural, but it definitely fits with the way latinum is regarded in DS9 (if latinum could be replicated, then it really wouldn't be worth anything).

Exactly. That Latinum can't be replicated or can only be replicated using extreme amounts of energy makes perfect sense. End of discussion.
 
Here's some annoying fanon: "Kirk was born in Iowa."

When what he said in The Voyage Home was "No, I'm from Iowa, I only work in outer space."
 
Well, wasn't Trek IV's line a nod to the people of Riverside who had already decided to publicly declare themselves Captain Kirk's birthplace?
 
Well, wasn't Trek IV's line a nod to the people of Riverside who had already decided to publicly declare themselves Captain Kirk's birthplace?

I thought that came as a result of the line in The Voyage Home?

Why, oh why, doesn't everyone simply accept my interpretation of the ST universe as the only valid one? :rofl:
 
Here's some annoying fanon: "Kirk was born in Iowa."
That from the original Star Trek (TOS) writer's guide, the shows "bible."

That Kirk is from Iowa is repeated in the 1968 book The Making of Star Trek.

Exactly. That Latinum can't be replicated or can only be replicated using extreme amounts of energy makes perfect sense. End of discussion.
My personal "fanon" explanation is that the replicator can't make living organisms, so what latinum is is a living organism (maybe like a slime mold) that can only reproduce in a unusual biological environment on Ferengar. It lives inside it's gold container and very slowly feeds off of it.

:)
 
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Here's some annoying fanon: "Kirk was born in Iowa."

When what he said in The Voyage Home was "No, I'm from Iowa, I only work in outer space."
That's not fanon, though, just a reasonable conclusion from onscreen dialogue. There really was no reason for people to believe that Kirk wasn't born in Iowa. In fact, there's no reason to believe that still isn't the case for Kirk Prime who may not have been born until after the Kelvin came back to Earth in the original timeline.
 
Here's some annoying fanon: "Kirk was born in Iowa."
That from the original Star Trek (TOS) writer's guide, the shows "bible."

That Kirk is from Iowa is repeated in the 1968 book The Making of Star Trek.

It's mentioned in TMoST, Chapter 4, page 215, of the 13th printing from 1974 (1968 edition).

However, I can't find it mentioned in the Star Trek Writers/Directors Guide, third revision from April 17, 1967.

Can you provide a citation in the writer's guide?
 
There is a lot of 'fanon' which is generally accepted by the audience, such as dates and times of events or character back stories, in leiu of any actual on-screen evidence establishing different. I can understand why we do this. Especially in terms of TOS, these kinds of details were never fully established in any linear form. There are gaps in where characters come and go, whether they were aboard all along or only transfered there later (hello Chekov!); the dates and times that these events take place, like where The Motion Picture stands in relation to The Wrath of Khan; and so on. Later spin-off shows were produced at a time when continuity mattered just a bit more, so in those cases a lot of these fine details were actually filled out on-screen. All the same, there are always gaps.

Fandom has of course decided to fill in these gaps with their own theories. This 'fanon' is naturally often seen as being better than nothing, and in some cases there's a kind of general consensus about certain things where the 'fanon' has transcended its roots and become firmly established as being the 'correct' view. And even though it might never have been established on-screen per se, for the lack of any better explanations a lot of us find ourselves more than happy to accept this kind of 'fanon' as being fact. Even the Star Trek Wiki, Memory Alpha, contains articles which play fast and loose with the distinction between fanon and fact (Memory Beta is of course even looser still).

IMO even the Okudas, who actually came the closest to canonising a lot of this stuff, really only ever peddled a commerical form of 'fanon'. Their views held more water as a result of them being part of the on-going production team. But what is oft forgotten is that much of what was published in the Encyclopedia and the Chronology was really just higher profile 'fanon', rather than Canon. Even the Okudas themselves admit that a lot of what they wrote was simply conjecture on their part, and some things that they 'established' got debunked in subsequent episodesbut. But again, for a lack of better explanations, many of us are happy to accept what they said as being a general rule of thumb. I suspect this is because we all need to have a common ground on which to talk about events in the Trek universe.

On another tangent, sometimes when a later Trek series like Voyager or Enterprise broke the conjecture that we fans had already accepted as being 'fact', the producers would be accused of contradicting the established continuity... even though more often than not that continuity had never actually been established on-screen in the first place! Is it possible for the series to contradict something that was only ever the purview of fan conjecture? It would appear that the answer is: sometimes it can.

My question is therefore: do we as fans sometimes accept this 'fanon' too readily as being firm 'fact'? Should we instead be questioning and debating these so-called 'facts' more strongly? Or is the use of 'fanon' a crucial tool in our understanding of the Trek universe? Do we need to have this kind of firm foundation in order to help us all join the dots together?

I think fanon is okay to a degree, like an author uses their own ideas of fanon in a fanwork.

It can become something else entirely if said author tries to push that idea off into the fandom like they are right and anybody else who writes or draws otherwise is wrong.

Sometimes a fanon "thing" ends up picked up by the entire fandom, and that's fine too. As long as nobody pushes their personal fanon in other peoples' faces like it's established fact, I don't mind it at all.
 
Like the issue of Bolians' membership in the Federation, supposedly it has never actually been said they are members, and there are those who insist they can't be because of that.

There was a TNG script mentioned in an interview that featured Mr Mot's barbershop conversation that would have revealed that the Bolians' homeworld wasn't a member of the UFP, but the scene was dropped, unfilmed, for time.

Since then, of course, DS9 had made a Bolian the Commandant of Starfleet Academy.

Riverside declared themselves the birthplace of Captain Kirk in March 1985, over a year before Trek IV's release (November 1986).

Correct. The line in ST IV was an in-joke callout to the Riverside campaigners.
 
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