Dukat and other thoughts while ending Season 5

[Captain Kathryn]

Captain Kathryn, I wish I was in your shoes, watching DS9 for the first time again. I love DS9, it beats all other Trek with a big stick (IMO). It has some of the best story telling and characters that shift and change over the years (even recurring ones such as Dukat).

Same here! Although VOY will always be my favorite, for purely nostalgic reasons, I adore DS9. Its deep, involving plotlines, its superb acting, and its wonderful characters, including the recurring ones. I think that may be my favorite thing about DS9.

VOY is my favorite too...not sure the main reason, but I think because of it's humor. However, DS9 is pretty much tied for first place. It's amazing! I agree I love the recurring characters (namely Garak and Dukat). TNG is my third fave I suppose. I have yet to watch ENT and haven't finished TOS. I will get to those soon enough though. I'm going to watch all Trek this year. I burned through all 7 seasons of VOY in 2 months and am nearly finished DS9 in 1 month.

 

[Ryva Brall]

I'm going to watch all Trek this year. I burned through all 7 seasons of VOY in 2 months and am nearly finished DS9 in 1 month.

Dayyy-om! You're off to a good start, then. My best friend used to be staunchly anti-Trek when we were younger, and thought I was such a nerd for liking it. But a couple years ago, I convinced her to give it a chance, and now she and her husband have watched all of the series, and are going through TNG for the second time. I think Data is her personal hero.

I've watched all of them except ENT, and I'm remedying that right now. I watched the first two seasons when they first aired, but I lost interest. I don't remember much about it, but so far I haven't been too impressed with it. However, I can't just not watch a Trek series! It goes against everything in me.

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

VOY is my favorite too...not sure the main reason, but I think because of it's humor. However, DS9 is pretty much tied for first place. It's amazing! I agree I love the recurring characters (namely Garak and Dukat). TNG is my third fave I suppose. I have yet to watch ENT and haven't finished TOS. I will get to those soon enough though. I'm going to watch all Trek this year. I burned through all 7 seasons of VOY in 2 months and am nearly finished DS9 in 1 month.

I haven't watched TOS since I was a bairn and part of me doesn't really want to as I have such fond memories of it, if I watched it now my memories and nostalgia might be ruined.

 

[R. Star]

Captain Kathryn, I wish I was in your shoes, watching DS9 for the first time again. I love DS9, it beats all other Trek with a big stick (IMO). It has some of the best story telling and characters that shift and change over the years (even recurring ones such as Dukat).

Same here! Although VOY will always be my favorite, for purely nostalgic reasons, I adore DS9. Its deep, involving plotlines, its superb acting, and its wonderful characters, including the recurring ones. I think that may be my favorite thing about DS9.

VOY is my favorite too...not sure the main reason, but I think because of it's humor. However, DS9 is pretty much tied for first place. It's amazing! I agree I love the recurring characters (namely Garak and Dukat). TNG is my third fave I suppose. I have yet to watch ENT and haven't finished TOS. I will get to those soon enough though. I'm going to watch all Trek this year. I burned through all 7 seasons of VOY in 2 months and am nearly finished DS9 in 1 month.

Woah.. that's a lot of Trekkin. You ought to be done with DS9 in a week at that pace!

 

[Anwar]

I'm guessing they don't blame Damar for killing Ziyal because he did what soldiers are supposed to do and executed an admitted traitor.

 

[Yorkshire Niner]

DS9 still remains the greatest TV show I have ever seen in my life - bar none!

I run a twice-weekly Star Trek Club at the school where I work and we finished watching DS9 a couple of months ago. It's quite astonishing to think how old it is now because it doesn't look dated one little bit. It's as sharp and crucial and fresh-looking as any sci-fi show that's been produced since DS9 finished. I still cry at that beautiful final shot when season 7 draws to a close. The Pocket Book novels that carried the story on were also excellent.

Now, on to Dukat. I must admit that I too thought of Dukat as a bit of a 'pinball character' when I first watched the series. He's a military dictator then a put-upon soldier and family man then a freedom fighter then a coup leader then a defacto president then

Spoiler

a madman then a religious zealot

. At the time it felt like the writers didn't really know where they wanted to take the character but it all does make a sort of sense when you look at his journey across all seven seasons. In the end, he was a fabulous character who was so well portrayed by Marc Alaimo. DS9 wouldn't have been the same without him.

As for Jake, now he was a difficult character to write for! I was glad when he stayed aboard the station when Starfleet fled as it was perfectly logical (from his own viewpoint - his assumption of safety being provided by his being the son of The Emissary) and it gave him something better to do than mixing stew in Grandpa's restaurant for the remainder of the war!

Glad you're enjoying DS9.

 

[Melakon]

Casey Biggs was initially disappointed with Damar's first appearance in Season 4, but he was promised the writers had plans for him and they followed through. It must have been a rewarding experience for Biggs to start as a minor character, and become increasingly important to the overall plot.

 

[TheRoyalFamily]

When I originally watched that story arc, I got the feeling that the station is simply not as important to the rest of the Federation as it is to Sisko, the Bajorans, or us viewers.

There's a reason the station is called Deep Space Nine, even though it's a hop, skip, and a jump away from the core of the Federation.

 

[R. Star]

Casey Biggs was initially disappointed with Damar's first appearance in Season 4, but he was promised the writers had plans for him and they followed through. It must have been a rewarding experience for Biggs to start as a minor character, and become increasingly important to the overall plot.

Definitely. Damar changes both in terms of significance, starting out as a mere lackey and surpassing his mentor and in actual character too. Though I guess I'm a bit of a sucker for redemption stories.

 

[horatio83]

I just started Season 6 of DS9 and I just have to say I'm really disgusted by what Dukat did. Why bother having all of those episodes showing he "changed" when obviously he just goes back to his old self? I have to admit I love the power struggle between himself and the Dominion leader on the station, someone to take him down a peg. But, I am really upset that they bothered doing all of that character development with his daughter and him being cast out from his family, etc. only to have him go back to being his arrogant self who doesn't care about anyone. I understand it's supposed to surprise you and I guess it's one of those things where when you have nothing, you've got nothing to lose...but still.

DS9 did in the end ruin rich and complex characters like Dukat and Winn. But well, even Picard went down the drain when Stewart direly wanted to drive a buggy.

 

[Yorkshire Niner]

When I originally watched that story arc, I got the feeling that the station is simply not as important to the rest of the Federation as it is to Sisko, the Bajorans, or us viewers.

There's a reason the station is called Deep Space Nine, even though it's a hop, skip, and a jump away from the core of the Federation.

"Frontier medicine".

 

[Captain Kathryn]

Ok...if I thought Dukat was crazed during Season 5... Season 7 Dukat is just.... whoaaaaaa....

I only have about 6 episodes left. I think I'll finish them by tomorrow.

I like how Damar is getting f**king sick of the Dominion and wants out. It's obvious he has also developed a drinking problem.

But, Dukat.... wow....

 

[R. Star]

Dukat's like a comic book villain. No matter how many times you beat him, no matter how far down he goes, he manages to come back to threaten the good guys, usually becoming more crazy in the process. There's still a lot more crazy in him if you're only part of the way through the ending episode arc.

Damar... I don't want to spoil anything, but a lot of his problems will come to a head soon. Not to mention he has what I think is the most hilarious moment in Trek, maybe you've already seen it but the line about talking to Worf again.

 

[Captain Kathryn]

I'm on Strange Befellows Part 3 now. I don't think I saw the part you are referring to yet?

Damar is getting more awesome as time goes on though. He keeps guzzling Kanar and hating on Weyoun and the Founders. He's about to lose it.

About Dukat...The Pah Wraiths seem to be responsible for most of Dukat's wrongdoings in Season 7 though... if they had never taken over his body in the previous season (I think it was Season 5 or 6) he would have never turned into such a madman.

 

[PKTrekGirl]

^ I love Damar in S7. He was a good character before S7, but by the end of S7 I thought he was awesome.

I don't want to spoil anything for you...but hopefully you will like what is still to come for Damar.

 

[Tiberius]

Ziyal pretty much is -the- tragic character and the namesake of the episode. Her death was tragic and will have consequences yet to come for Dukat.

Spoiler: Minor Spoiler about other reactions to Ziyal's death

Sadly, Garak and Kira both fail to even mention it next time they run into Damar.

You mean towards the end of Season 7? Well, to be fair, they did have more important things to do, and they didn't want to jeopardize them by bringing up old arguments.

 

[Captain Kathryn]

Ziyal pretty much is -the- tragic character and the namesake of the episode. Her death was tragic and will have consequences yet to come for Dukat.

Spoiler: Minor Spoiler about other reactions to Ziyal's death

Sadly, Garak and Kira both fail to even mention it next time they run into Damar.

You mean towards the end of Season 7? Well, to be fair, they did have more important things to do, and they didn't want to jeopardize them by bringing up old arguments.

Kira did mention it when Sisko asked her to go help Damar with his resistance.

 

[Captain Kathryn]

I'm watching Extreme Measures now and I get the feeling that there has been Bashir/O'Brien slashfic written based on this scene:

O'BRIEN: That's what'll upset her the most. She always said I liked you more than I liked her.
BASHIR: That's ridiculous.
O'BRIEN: Right. Yeah.
BASHIR: Well maybe you do, a bit more.
O'BRIEN: What? Are you crazy? She's my wife. I love her.
BASHIR: Of course you love her. She's your wife.
O'BRIEN: Yeah.
BASHIR: I'm just saying maybe you like me a bit more, that's all.
O'BRIEN: I do not.
BASHIR: You spend more time with me.
O'BRIEN: We work together.
BASHIR: We have more in common.
O'BRIEN: Julian, you are starting to annoy me.
BASHIR: Darts, racquetball, Vic's lounge, the Alamo. Need I go on?