Short people got nobody...
5 year old given rifle as gift, kills 2 year old sister
- Thread starter Candlelight
- Start date
I grew up playing cowboys and Indians in the 50's. What I remember totally breaking my little heart was never getting one of these.
Somewhere (but not in my belongings) is a photo of me at 4, with a Davy Crockett pistol, wearing a Davy Crockett shirt, Davy Crockett pants, a Davy Crockett hat, and holding a Davy Crockett balloon. I think they entered it in a contest and won a Davy Crockett book, though I was too young to read, and it was written for high school kids or something. We also had Bill Hayes' 45rpm record, which would be worth real money now.
It's all well and good to teach a kid to "Don’t touch, get away, tell an adult" until they actually come across a gun. Kids are curious; and most kids, especially those who have only been taught that guns are bad and stay away from them without ever having any experience with them, will want to explore at least a little if they come across a gun without an adult nearby. If my kid were to come across a gun, I would want them to have practical experience with one and know how to handle it safely. Furthermore, I would want them to have experience with a gun so that it would be something familiar and not some magical powerful item they've only seen on the TV and seems to scare their parents so that it would be less likely for their curiosity to override their good sense and parental teaching.
Locutus seems to agree with me regarding the nature of children.
As for my own children, they have had their first opportunity to shoot at about 7 or 8 or so when we go shooting with either my family or my in-laws. It's a controlled environment with good safety practices demonstrated for them and they have hands-on training and close supervision. Because of this and because of how I've seen them handle guns, I don't have to cower in fear over the possibility they find a gun at a friend's house or somewhere else and end up killing someone. I only have to worry that their friends might not have the same skills and training if their friends' parents are scared of guns.
Yep, that's right.
A 5-year old kid shoots his sister because his gun nuts parents gave him a fucking functional rifle as a birthday present, and the problem is parents who don't have guns.
Right.
A 5-year old kid shoots his sister because his gun nuts parents gave him a fucking functional rifle as a birthday present, and the problem is parents who don't have guns.
Right.
Not in many excellently evolved contemporary societies, it isn't.
You don't need any weapons training to be taught not to handle guns, and to get away and tell an adult if you ever see other children handling them without adult supervision. And there's certainly no need to snidely label all those who don't like guns as being "afraid" of them; it only makes you look bad.
Guns (unfortunately) have a much more powerful lobby than candy eggs with a toy inside.
People need to disavow themselves of the idea that everything happens uniformly in a country this big and this diverse with a dedication to individual and state autonomy. I'm sure the same people who advocated for banning candy eggs as a choking hazard would also not want kids to have access to guns. But they don't get to make all the laws. They can only pressure Congresspeople or state legislators to pass the laws they want, with varying degrees of success.
I agree that kids like to test boundaries and do things they're not supposed to, but we have wildly different views on how to handle that natural tendency where it comes to guns.
Wow! I just had the Davy Crockett hat. But I also had a cowboy hat and a pistol in a red leather holster. And a tri-cornered hat from Colonial Williamsburg. All in addition to the expected dolls and tea sets and stuff.
Sorry, folks, back on topic...
I didn't mean to imply you agreed on everything, only on the nature of children. Sorry if that wasn't clear.
Yep, that's right.
A 5-year old kid shoots his sister because his gun nuts parents gave him a fucking functional rifle as a birthday present, and the problem is parents who don't have guns.
Right.
That's not what I said; please don't put words in my mouth. If you bothered to read my first post it the thread you would find that I put the blame solely at the feet of the parents in this situation.
No, you don't need training to not handle guns. But kids are curious and often make poor decisions. A kid who has no experience with an item but instead is told to never touch it will more often than not be very curious about such an item if they come across it, regardless of what it is. Now, if that item is something that seems very powerful and even magical when they see it on TV, and their parents seem to be scared of it (why else would they say to never touch it, especially if they don't have one?) it will only enhance their curiosity. I you actually believe that just telling them not to touch it and go find an adult is going to work, you have little to no experience with children.
Can you name some?
Your country is able to have a uniform law when when it comes to choking hazards so I don't think it should be impossible to pass a law prohibiting either the manufacture of children's guns or else a law setting an minimum age (maybe about 10 or 12) at which a child can use a gun.
In Australia guns control was a state issue, and we also have a powerful gun lobby, but we were able to reach agreement on banning certain guns. I admit we only have 6 states and 22 million people but the laws we reached agreement on were much stronger laws than just banning guns for small children.
You must have some federal laws that relate to the manufacture/importation of certain items (beyond a federal law that forbid eggs that contain toys).
No worries. You didn't imply that. I was just adding my own clarification on where we differ.
Not impossible, but like I said, unfortunately extremely difficult when we have a disproportionately powerful NRA/gun lobby influencing politicians and making sure not even the most common sense and watered down gun laws get passed, because they irrationally see any gun law as one step further along the road to a total gun ban.
Also, there's no Constitutional amendment protecting toys that are a choking hazard, so it makes it a little more difficult to act where it comes to guns.
But that wasn't even my main point. My point was that people keep bringing up completely unconnected things like they're directly related and one should preclude the other. Jarod did it too in the other thread about the kid testing chemicals in school: "Why is she getting punished so harshly when kids are allowed to have guns?" Different situations, different people, different states, different laws, etc. I understand it's frustrating to see seemingly contradictory things happen, but there's not a nation on Earth that doesn't have contradictory policies and enforcement on different issues, especially not one this large and diverse in beliefs.
That's great. We have people trying very hard to accomplish the same thing, and other people trying very hard to stop them. It doesn't all happen at the same pace everywhere. I wish it would.
But in the meantime, we have to deal with the reality of what's happening in the US now, and not just make off-base comparisons like "Well, you passed seat belt laws, so why can't you pass stricter gun laws?" that don't really address the nuances and history of the situation at all.
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To paraphrase: The DUMB PARENTS should not have gotten him a gun AT ALL.
I think it is hard for people to accept lax gun laws because if it is easy to protect children from one hazard than it should be just as easy to protect children from another hazard. That is why people compare gun hazards to choking hazards to pool hazards.
Yes, you have a powerful gun lobby but that is because your country allowed it to get so powerful and seem to be reluctant to take them on. It took a gun massacre 17 years ago for the average Australian to say enough is enough. I t wasn't Australia's first gun massacre but it was the final straw (mainly because it had such a high death toll, included children and happened in Tasmania).
It would seem to me that America's final straw might never come and I think that is tragic especially when Americans are so protective of their children in almost every other area.
Yes, you have a powerful gun lobby but that is because your country allowed it to get so powerful and seem to be reluctant to take them on. It took a gun massacre 17 years ago for the average Australian to say enough is enough. I t wasn't Australia's first gun massacre but it was the final straw (mainly because it had such a high death toll, included children and happened in Tasmania).
It would seem to me that America's final straw might never come and I think that is tragic especially when Americans are so protective of their children in almost every other area.
*envisions TZ in Wild West gear like this*
*dies*
(for anyone who's reading this, yes, TZ and I do know each other.
)As for me, I did not have any cowboy gear when I was a kid although I did, in my college days, own an Australian cowboy hat. I think it rebelled against being put on my head.
^Where should we send the flowers? 
