Abrams: Into Darkness is a Bit Sexist (plus new 'sexy' TV spot)
- Thread starter CrazyHorse89
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I fail to see in that article where Abrams says that the film is "sexist."
He doesn't say it but he's agreeing with the reporters premise. And then obviously goes onto say that Zoe has a larger role in the upcoming film.
A "bit sexist"?
They have a woman standing in her underwear in the trailer, and you know that just screams, 'take me seriously as a character'. I hope there is a really good reason for it, and not just an excuse to get more flesh on screen (granted, had it been Chris Pine in a jockstrap I wouldn't be complaining).
They have a woman standing in her underwear in the trailer, and you know that just screams, 'take me seriously as a character'. I hope there is a really good reason for it, and not just an excuse to get more flesh on screen (granted, had it been Chris Pine in a jockstrap I wouldn't be complaining).
He said that everyone, male or female, who is not Kirk and Spock is by nature of the large cast more of a supporting player in the film, and that we (general we) should always be conscious of expanding and improving roles for women. Nowhere did he say the film was sexist. He was agreeing with the interviewer's question in the broader sense and saying he hopes to have better and larger parts for women in the films in the future, while saying that any deficit in this or the previous ST film is because of the larger focus on Kirk and Spock, not because of anything against Saldana or Eve.
Also, he correctly pointed out that the Uhura of his ST films has been given a much more prominent and important role in terms of duties, dramatic significance, and screentime than the Uhura of the original series. Wasn't there a thread here not too long ago either complaining or praising (I'm not sure which) that Uhura has essentially bumped McCoy from the "Big Three" and taken his place? I'm not sure how accurate everyone else feels that is, but Saldana surely has as major a role as Urban and has replaced him in serving as the moral compass in situations between Kirk and Spock on some occasions.
Also, while Eve is indeed prominently featured in her underwear in the trailers, so was Kirk in the previous movie's trailers, and he is back in his underwear again in this film, albeit not in the trailers. There's partial nudity for everyone. I will grant that seeing her in her underwear and screaming in the trailer are not great strides for women in film, but that's only what they cut things down to in the trailer to grab your attention. In the film she's a scientist and plays a moderately important role in the plot, so it's more than just screaming and getting undressed.
Also, he correctly pointed out that the Uhura of his ST films has been given a much more prominent and important role in terms of duties, dramatic significance, and screentime than the Uhura of the original series. Wasn't there a thread here not too long ago either complaining or praising (I'm not sure which) that Uhura has essentially bumped McCoy from the "Big Three" and taken his place? I'm not sure how accurate everyone else feels that is, but Saldana surely has as major a role as Urban and has replaced him in serving as the moral compass in situations between Kirk and Spock on some occasions.
Also, while Eve is indeed prominently featured in her underwear in the trailers, so was Kirk in the previous movie's trailers, and he is back in his underwear again in this film, albeit not in the trailers. There's partial nudity for everyone. I will grant that seeing her in her underwear and screaming in the trailer are not great strides for women in film, but that's only what they cut things down to in the trailer to grab your attention. In the film she's a scientist and plays a moderately important role in the plot, so it's more than just screaming and getting undressed.
He didn't actually use the word "sexist," but he pretty much said the film affirmed patriarchy. Not exactly a cardinal sin, considering almost all popular media does that. It's a society problem, not a JJ Abrams (or Steven Spielberg or David Fincher or Brian De Palma, et al) problem.
There is - trust me - and you'd scream too. Read the spoiler thread if you want to know why. If not, you'll see why in 2 short weeks.
Any hint as to where in the Spoiler Thread it is?
lt's a Star Trek problem, as well.
I'll just tell you. It's a pretty major spoiler though, so read at your own risk.
Admiral Marcus gets his head crushed by Harrison, but before it gets too gory, they zoom away to Carol's face as she screams in horror at her father's gruesome death.
Now that I think about it, I wonder if that scene was a quasi homage to Blade Runner?
I wouldn't judge that the film is sexist based on the trailers. Have we all forgotten UPN's promotion of Voyager?
I don't have a dog in this fight, and I really do see both sides of the issue, but I will point out that the thread directly under this one was about the premier in Berlin, Germany, complete with photos. Ms. Saldana is wearing a very short dress and very high heels. Ms. Eve is wearing a mostly-covering, but still slinky, red dress. Neither one looks like a slut, but the point is: take a look at the actress's photos, not just these actresses, but most of them, when they are dressing themselves and not being told what to wear for their role. You will find, more often than not, that they will choose to wear things that would be called objectionable and sexist if worn in the movies they are promoting. I guess it's not always a bad thing to try and deny human nature but you're still, well, denying human nature.
I have always thought that Star Trek had two kinds of women--those that were attractive love interests like Seven of Nine, Deanna Troi, and every alien Kirk encounters, and the brainy types like Janeway who can't play sex as easily as the others. Look at Nurse Chapel in the first series, or the Orion slave women in the original pilot, hell the main female lead in "The Cage." Star Trek has never, in Gene's vision, presented women in a good light. They are breathless, highly emotional vessels for men to conquer.
I found Uhura in 2009 to be head-and-shoulders above any other interpretation. While she rushes to the door every time Spock starts off the bridge, and is a love interest for both Spock and Kirk, she manages to be more highly qualified than any of the other main cast members. It was mixed together--she is stripping on camera while telling us that the Klingon armada was destroyed. She stands up to Spock, something Nurse Chapel never would've done, and gets herself put on the Enterprise. She confirms Kirk's report and then takes over for the communications officer because she can speak all three dialects of the Romulan language. She's actually more qualified, it's fleshed out, than even Kirk and Spock. She has a history.
While it is a fair point that Seven of Nine was in a cat suit and Carol strips down to her skivvies and that's what's sold to the audience, this version of Trek manages to treat women better than previous incarnations, by comparison. "Can you feel me Imzadi?"
Hell, an actress got fired over bringing this to Gene's attention (Gates McFadden).
It's been more glaring than any other problem I have with Trek. The fact that JJ sees this, brings him up in my book.
I found Uhura in 2009 to be head-and-shoulders above any other interpretation. While she rushes to the door every time Spock starts off the bridge, and is a love interest for both Spock and Kirk, she manages to be more highly qualified than any of the other main cast members. It was mixed together--she is stripping on camera while telling us that the Klingon armada was destroyed. She stands up to Spock, something Nurse Chapel never would've done, and gets herself put on the Enterprise. She confirms Kirk's report and then takes over for the communications officer because she can speak all three dialects of the Romulan language. She's actually more qualified, it's fleshed out, than even Kirk and Spock. She has a history.
While it is a fair point that Seven of Nine was in a cat suit and Carol strips down to her skivvies and that's what's sold to the audience, this version of Trek manages to treat women better than previous incarnations, by comparison. "Can you feel me Imzadi?"
Hell, an actress got fired over bringing this to Gene's attention (Gates McFadden). It's been more glaring than any other problem I have with Trek. The fact that JJ sees this, brings him up in my book.
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Being Sexually attracted is human nature. Men putting women on display for their amusement is not. That's a male-dominated society. At least when women drool, it's usually over a guy in a suit, dressed from head to toe. We don't see the clothes, gentlemen. We see what part of the body is showing and being accentuated. Men are not asked to do that. We like to be titillated. So here we go on this debate. Why does women fashion show more skin?
The same people who vote in the "Babe of the Week" thread every time they get a chance, too.
Given that what we've seen of STID so far, Eve's moment in her skivvies is played far more for laughs than any kind of titilation. It's meant to make Kirk uncomfortable and for us to guffaw at his complete inability to leer. So, it's actually turning the trope on its ear rather than playing such a scene straight.
Similarly, when Uhura comes back to her quarters in the first picture, it's Kirk who shows the most skin. I'm not going to claim that these movies are at all sexually enlightened, but the faux outrage on display here is more than a little overwrought.
Similarly, when Uhura comes back to her quarters in the first picture, it's Kirk who shows the most skin. I'm not going to claim that these movies are at all sexually enlightened, but the faux outrage on display here is more than a little overwrought.
Clearly if there is any sexism in this movie then old school Trek should LOVE that he is tipping his cap to TOS which was full of stereotypical sexist characters.
"Despite these progressive overtures, there are many examples of sexism in Star Trek as well. There was no female captain in the role of lead character until Captain Janeway in the Voyager series. Women in The Next Generation were mostly relegated to nurturing functions, a doctor and a counselor being the two most prominent female characters. In the Original Series women were prohibited from being Starship captains and wore revealing outfits."
"Despite these progressive overtures, there are many examples of sexism in Star Trek as well. There was no female captain in the role of lead character until Captain Janeway in the Voyager series. Women in The Next Generation were mostly relegated to nurturing functions, a doctor and a counselor being the two most prominent female characters. In the Original Series women were prohibited from being Starship captains and wore revealing outfits."
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