Deep Space Nine Revisited: A New Perspective

[Danger Ace]

This show is just full of friendships; it's something that we talk about on The Orb all the time. Every time we talk about one of the characters we are quickly talking about them and their relationships. I really love the characters and their interaction with each other. I have always had a personal soft spot for Nog and Jake as well

And that taps into what I feel is the neatest feature of my current re-watch of DS9. There was a lot going on in this series at any given time. So much so that no matter how attentive I thought I was being at the time there was simply just too much to take in and fully appreciate.

I would also add that it helps that I watched Deep Space Nine religously when it was in production so I know how things generally turn out, therefore, I can now look more to the nuances and the periphery rather the just focusing on the core.

 

[Danger Ace]

Something I really loved about DS9 in the beginning is that sense of isolation... I mean, it had that right through to the end, but it always seemed more pronounced at the start. That these were Starfleet officers who were genuinely situated on "the final frontier", far away from reinforcements. Sisko and co always had to shoot from the hip a bit more because they couldn't always rely on the fleet to come and help out.

That raw, untamed frontier quality was, to me, a very definite plus for Deep Space Nine. It was perhaps the most loud and immediate feature that spoke to how different this Trek was going to be. DS9 was not going to be just another pretty and pristine romp aboard a starship. It was going to be grittier and a little bit down-and-dirty. TNG was a fine wine while DS9 was a tequilla shooter and some hardtack.

 

[DalekJim]

As Sisko said, it's easy to act like a saint in paradise. Out in the frontier, tough choices have to be made and the heroes are more flawed.

A far more realistic view of space exploration than Roddenberry's.

I have to say that I believe seasons 5-7 to be the pinnacle of Star Trek story-telling. I loved the mythology they created and how the show left me satisfied and wanting more all at the same time.

Eh, Seasons 3 and 4 are a lot better than Season 7. What You Leave Behind did a great job at wrapping things up though and is the best Trek finale.

 

[JediKnightButler]

My wife and I finished the entire series last month. It was her first time and my first time all the way through (I had seen a lot of the episodes up through S5, the first part of S6, and the last part of S7 but hadn't watched every single one, so some were brand new to me. I had seen most of the last part of the "Final Chapter" eps so I knew how the series ended but, whoa, seeing WYLB after seeing each and every episode that had preceded it dramatically increased the emotional impact of the final few moments (I was tearing up) plus I hadn't seen the Bashir/Garak scene on Cardassia, which had been cut out of the broadcast. Powerful stuff. I thought that overall it was one of the stronger Trek series. I think that I liked it more also because I was a big fan of Babylon 5 and liked the running storyline narrative of DS9 (though I think that large portions of S6 and some of S7 could have been cut out to improve the storyline arc but I digress).

 

[TrekDoggyDog]

Just last week I decided to start rewatching Star Trek: Deep Space Nine (1993 - 1999) via video streaming through Netflix. Eight episodes in and loving it more than I thought.​

DS9 Is hands down my favorite of the new age star trek's. I have some issues with it (though most might say they are kind of nit picky)

- Sisko/Avery Brooks acting was really contrived and puppety. He didnt seem like he naturally fell into the role but was instead reading from a cue card. It got a little better and less noticeable past season 4 but that was pretty unnerving for a while there.

- Absolutely HATED the goatee. That whole bald look just wasnt working for him. He's no picard sorry to say. And anyone notice that he had absolutely no eyebrows? Was this a gift from the prophets?

- Jake Sisko. *sigh*. Its like the writers said, hey lets take wesley crusher, put him on steroids (the kid shot up like a foot in season 2) and dress him in all the odds and ends leftover from wardrobe. Granted, Jake started to dress like a normal person later on in the series and I think his becoming a writer actually added a lot of depth to the character.

- It took Kira like 4 seasons to stop being a lesbian. Its like she was hell bent on wearing the pants. I was surprised she and Sisko didnt develop some sort of romance (it seemed they were gearing towards Sisko and Jadzia having something going on but it never amounted to anything) It would have made Sisko's love for Bajor a little more plausible and I think would have added a lot more depth to both characters.

- Kassidy Yates was like Meg Griffin. She added absolutely nothing to the show. Picard had Vash, Crusher, Lt Nella Darren AND Anij... Stunning women and great actresses.... For Sisko they give him Penny Johnson?????? really?

- DS9 was filled with a surprising LACK of alpha male machismo. Not meaning to be sexist but come on, kirk and riker added a great level of humor to their respective shows. Quark on the other hand was a skeevy uncle and Odo might as well have been a peeping tom.

- O Brien seemed to be severely under written. He's supposed to be this Geordi La Forge level technical genius but instead they make him out to be lazy and almost Oafish. As busy as he always was it seemed nothing ever worked on deep space nine. He almost always had this "ive been taking a nap in the upper pylon" look on his face.

- Doctor Bashir another completely underwritten character. They tried to crank him up a notch by revealing he was genetically enhanced but they never took it anywhere. In the ST Expanded novels he's a much better character.. but alas its too little too late.

- Keiko: I always got the feeling she was meant to be the sort of maternal character that Beverly Crusher was. I was sad they didnt do more with her because Rosalind is a phenomenal actress. Instead they made her more like Wilma Flintstone.


There are some other things like the father son relationship between Ben and Jake. While it was very afternoon special, I thought they were a little too touchy feely.. Made them seem less masculine .. i dunno.. And ive never seen two men kiss as much as they did. I never kissed my dad.. Hugs sure.

All in all, DS9 took Star Trek to a whole new level. Definitely a must watch! at least 3 times!

 

[Tosk]

That's a lot of issues. I'd hate to see a list of the things you didn't like about a show that wasn't your fave Trek.

 

[davejames]

Wow, completely disagree with every one of those. They seem like some very shallow criticisms, and I don't quite get the obsession with masculinity and people's appearances throughout...

 

[TrekDoggyDog]

Something I really loved about DS9 in the beginning is that sense of isolation... I mean, it had that right through to the end, but it always seemed more pronounced at the start. That these were Starfleet officers who were genuinely situated on "the final frontier", far away from reinforcements. Sisko and co always had to shoot from the hip a bit more because they couldn't always rely on the fleet to come and help out.

This was one of the best aspects of Deep Space Nine. Traditional "starfleet command" was more or less an afterthought. It was the law of Deep Space Nine and the Bajoran sector. Case in point, Garak had to be the most well written and complex character on the show. Can you imagine what it would have been like without him? He characterized the various morals (and dilemmas) throughout the series.

 

[TrekDoggyDog]

Wow, completely disagree with every one of those. They seem like some very shallow criticisms, and I don't quite get the obsession with masculinity and people's appearances throughout...

Feel free to disagree, but it'd make your argument a bit more plausible with a little substance rather than emotion

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

- DS9 was filled with a surprising LACK of alpha male machismo.

And this is bad?

 

[Saito S]

- DS9 was filled with a surprising LACK of alpha male machismo.

And this is bad?

Apparently! Who knew?

Dog, your criticisms are less "nit picky" and more "massively offensive and frighteningly shallow".

Wow, completely disagree with every one of those. They seem like some very shallow criticisms, and I don't quite get the obsession with masculinity and people's appearances throughout...

Feel free to disagree, but it'd make your argument a bit more plausible with a little substance rather than emotion

Yeah, cause this

- It took Kira like 4 seasons to stop being a lesbian.

is a very "plausible" () argument with lots of substance.

 

[Tosk]

Wow, completely disagree with every one of those. They seem like some very shallow criticisms, and I don't quite get the obsession with masculinity and people's appearances throughout...

Feel free to disagree, but it'd make your argument a bit more plausible with a little substance rather than emotion

What argument? He disagrees with you...isn't that all that needs to be said?

 

[Shanndee]

- DS9 was filled with a surprising LACK of alpha male machismo.

And this is bad?

No kidding! I had hoped that everyone was aware that chest thumping garbage was passe. I guess not!

That's ok though. I get a great laugh whenever someone chooses to put it on diplay!

 

[davejames]

So is anybody else having the same problem I am with the Bashir in their rewatch?

Knowing now that he's genetically enhanced with a massive IQ, I just can't watch anything he does in those early episodes without wondering if he's being sincere, or simply putting on a show to hide the truth. Especially in episodes like "Past Prologue", where he's bounding around like an exciteable, naive little kid and telling everyone about Garak. Or when he's acting nervous about the Klingons and every other little thing that happens.

As much as I loved "Doctor Bashir, I Presume" and it's big revelation, I definitely understand now why Siddig was so angry about it-- because it just doesn't match up at all with how he was playing the character before.

 

[Enterpriserules]

No, I always feel like that Bashir is downplaying his true self so that no one will ever expect that he is genetically enhanced

 

[Saito S]

- DS9 was filled with a surprising LACK of alpha male machismo.

And this is bad?

No kidding! I had hoped that everyone was aware that chest thumping garbage was passe. I guess not!

That's ok though. I get a great laugh whenever someone chooses to put it on diplay!

Especially in regards to a TV show. I mean... why would this even MATTER? Before this thread, I would never have even conceived of the notion that ANYONE holds the amount of "alpha male machismo" present as being of even slightly important when evaluating a Trek series.

So is anybody else having the same problem I am with the Bashir in their rewatch?

Knowing now that he's genetically enhanced with a massive IQ, I just can't watch anything he does in those early episodes without wondering if he's being sincere, or simply putting on a show to hide the truth. Especially in episodes like "Past Prologue", where he's bounding around like an exciteable, naive little kid and telling everyone about Garak. Or when he's acting nervous about the Klingons and every other little thing that happens.

I dunno... are those things really necessarily out of character for a genetically engineered guy in the first place? Those are personality traits. Just because he's got a monster intellect, doesn't mean he can't be a bit wowed by his first assignment, a bit overexcited at meeting a real-life spy, etc. He's got exceptional reflexes and is highly intelligent, but you can't genetically engineer common sense, maturity, or general personality traits. I think that, combined with:

No, I always feel like that Bashir is downplaying his true self so that no one will ever expect that he is genetically enhanced

this, to the degree that it would have been necessary, covers it pretty well.

 

[Melakon]

No, I always feel like that Bashir is downplaying his true self so that no one will ever expect that he is genetically enhanced

this, to the degree that it would have been necessary, covers it pretty well.

It could be interpreted to explain some of Bashir's awkward pauses and "Umm..." moments.

 

[davejames]

I dunno... are those things really necessarily out of character for a genetically engineered guy in the first place? Those are personality traits. Just because he's got a monster intellect, doesn't mean he can't be a bit wowed by his first assignment, a bit overexcited at meeting a real-life spy, etc. He's got exceptional reflexes and is highly intelligent, but you can't genetically engineer common sense, maturity, or general personality traits. I think that, combined with:

No, I always feel like that Bashir is downplaying his true self so that no one will ever expect that he is genetically enhanced

this, to the degree that it would have been necessary, covers it pretty well.

I suppose, but it seemed before that those traits were rooted in a genuine naivety about the world around him. And you would think having a monster intellect would bring with it a greater sense of maturity and confidence as well.

At least to where you're not continuing to act like a little kid at every new thing you encounter.

 

[Saito S]

I dunno... are those things really necessarily out of character for a genetically engineered guy in the first place? Those are personality traits. Just because he's got a monster intellect, doesn't mean he can't be a bit wowed by his first assignment, a bit overexcited at meeting a real-life spy, etc. He's got exceptional reflexes and is highly intelligent, but you can't genetically engineer common sense, maturity, or general personality traits. I think that, combined with:

No, I always feel like that Bashir is downplaying his true self so that no one will ever expect that he is genetically enhanced

this, to the degree that it would have been necessary, covers it pretty well.

I suppose, but it seemed before that those traits were rooted in a genuine naivety about the world around him. And you would think having a monster intellect would bring with it a greater sense of maturity and confidence as well.

At least to where you're not continuing to act like a little kid at every new thing you encounter.

I agree that - even if his basic personality drove some of that initial "boyish wonder" genuinely - having the monster intellect would probably cause it to recede more quickly. That it didn't is the second part coming into play: some of it was intentional, especially as time went on, because he knew he had to tone it down gradually, so as not to undergo a very noticeable, sudden behavioral shift that might be questioned.

 

[Enterpriserules]

I dunno... are those things really necessarily out of character for a genetically engineered guy in the first place? Those are personality traits. Just because he's got a monster intellect, doesn't mean he can't be a bit wowed by his first assignment, a bit overexcited at meeting a real-life spy, etc. He's got exceptional reflexes and is highly intelligent, but you can't genetically engineer common sense, maturity, or general personality traits. I think that, combined with:


this, to the degree that it would have been necessary, covers it pretty well.

I suppose, but it seemed before that those traits were rooted in a genuine naivety about the world around him. And you would think having a monster intellect would bring with it a greater sense of maturity and confidence as well.

At least to where you're not continuing to act like a little kid at every new thing you encounter.

I agree that - even if his basic personality drove some of that initial "boyish wonder" genuinely - having the monster intellect would probably cause it to recede more quickly. That it didn't is the second part coming into play: some of it was intentional, especially as time went on, because he knew he had to tone it down gradually, so as not to undergo a very noticeable, sudden behavioral shift that might be questioned.

Exactly, he is a genetically engineered genius