The AGT Dreadnought Enterprise
- Thread starter F. King Daniel
- Start date
It was used one last time in Way of the Warrior as the USS Venture. It retained the attachments from the AGT modification on the tops of the warp nacelles.
I guess they didn't cover up all the scars after all. You can see some smudging on the saucer around where the registry should be.
How do you make a refit sleeker? By applying a gigantic cheese-grate? In reality, if you could afford to do something like that, you would much rather spend the money on an all-new ship. "Refitting" is all about gluing on new bits, or blowtorching old ones away; if hull form gets changed today, it's by the above methods (bulges on the sides of a ship for stability or torpedo protection, more steel on the bow for better wave-piercing, or perhaps cutting off of the stern into a short transom to save weight or adjust center of gravity or buoyancy).
Which is why it's easy to believe in the adding of a third nacelle or other trivialities to the E-D, but very hard to believe in the subtle hull change in the E-E between the last few movies! The former process might be gradual upgrading to keep up with the Jones class, but the latter smells of massive repairs after catastrophic damage to the secondary hull...
Timo Saloniemi
Meh, I just presume the E-E shape changes were intended as a retcon, just like the thicker saucer rim (to reflect Ten Forward) on the E-D four-footer, rather than a change to the "actual" ship in-universe.
Look at the TMP Constitution-class.
No, by thinking about how to refine the design then start the ball rolling with a starship design and engineering team, duh.
It's not easy for me to believe in a third nacelle or other trivialities to the Enterprise-D at all. I think they're utterly horrid and shameful. In comparison, I have no problems with the subtle hull change in the Enterprise-E because of how subtle they are.
On every account, she's much bulkier than her TOS forebear - bigger, thicker saucer, thicker neck, larger secondary hull, broader pylons. Plus way more greeblies, angles and detailing. Hardly sleeker... (And never mind that she basically appears to be an all-new ship that just camouflages as a refit for bureaucratic purposes!)
And then the team comes and tells you that you can have anything else you want, but you can't have sleeker, unless you build an all-new hull. And that's not refitting, that's newbuilding.
Just to clarify, do you find the E-E changes easy to believe in because you can easily pretend they did not happen?
Timo Saloniemi
I have to strongly disagree with that assessment. While the refit is slightly larger than the original, overall it does appear to sleeker and more "aerodynamic" or streamlined than the original (you can have smaller ships be less streamlined than larger ships).
I would still call it a refit if it still involves the original ship. You can call it an "upgrade" or "redesign" if makes you feel better, though.
Quite the opposite. I think after a couple of years in service, Starfleet discovered ways to refine the Sovereign-class design and the ship returned to spacedock where those refinements were incorporated. The Sovereign-class wouldn't be the first starship design which featured subtle variants (the Ambassador-class comes to mind right now)
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I actually think the Ent-E is a pretty cool design. My only problem is it just doesn't look "TNG" enough. It looks more like something that belonged on VOY or something, alongside all those other elongated ships.
I would have far preferred to have seen them come up with something with the same basic shape and design as the D, even if the differences were only subtle.
I would have far preferred to have seen them come up with something with the same basic shape and design as the D, even if the differences were only subtle.
I'm not 100% sure, but I think the original Neg'var model was a kitbashed over-the-counter Vor'cha, and would have looked it on the big screen. The old bird of prey was used because only it at the D7 from The Motion Picture had movie quality details. And the D7 was still painted grey and covered with little golden greebles from it's stint as Qu'nos-1 in STVI.Anyone find it sad how we got WAY more new starship designs in "All Good Things" (USS Pasteur, future Enterprise, new Klingon attack cruisers) compared to "Generations" (All reused ship designs)? It was so disappointing how little effort was put into that stupid movie!
The main reason it was used was because they wanted to be cheap and reuse all the BOP effect shots from TUC like the BOP going to warp, cloaking, and when it exploded.
That stuff too :-/
It was used one last time in Way of the Warrior as the USS Venture. It retained the attachments from the AGT modification on the tops of the warp nacelles.
I guess they didn't cover up all the scars after all. You can see some smudging on the saucer around where the registry should be.
I think the smudge has more to do with hiding the registry since the ship isn't supposed to be the Enterprise.
The main reason it was used was because they wanted to be cheap and reuse all the BOP effect shots from TUC like the BOP going to warp, cloaking, and when it exploded.
Rick Berman, ladies and gentlemen.
Yeah he really ruined the franchise
Well, that's not really true. It was Paramount that turned Star Trek into a franchise. They were the ones that pushed and authorized more Trek shows and movies. Otherwise, things would have stopped with TOS (in hindsight, Trek wouldn't have happened at all if it wasn't for Lucille Ball thinking Trek was a cool idea and signing Roddenberry to a development deal at Desilu).
For a long time I hated the Galaxy class but after a while I really liked the Probert 6 footer so I don't the the AGT refit.
Fanboy crap. Loved it when I fist saw it high school but with age and such came an idea of that thing being an abomination. Between the "kewl widgets" sticking out all over the place, the third nacelle ('cause she goes FASTAH!") and the "+3 Megga Phaser Weapon of Max Damage with a d20 per plus critical damage enhancement!" is just... Ugh.
It's an utter abomination.
It's an utter abomination.
I love it!!
I ain't GalaxyX just for my health!
Someone had said this before and I think I will repeat it again:
"It keeps the great look of the Galaxy Class, while giving it a deadly edge"
I definitely agree with this.
I've always liked Andrew Probert's design of the Galaxy Class, but it always looked too saucer heavy, and it felt like it needed more bulk in the star drive.
The 3rd Nacelle adds this bulk. Now it looks great from more angles!
The phaser Cannon is an ok idea, but I could do without it. Perhaps just have heavier/thicker phaser bank strips? But I don't hate it.
I would have loved to see this ship in the movies instead of that insect thing they call the Enterprise E. That thing is hideous.
I ain't GalaxyX just for my health!
Someone had said this before and I think I will repeat it again:
"It keeps the great look of the Galaxy Class, while giving it a deadly edge"
I definitely agree with this.
I've always liked Andrew Probert's design of the Galaxy Class, but it always looked too saucer heavy, and it felt like it needed more bulk in the star drive.
The 3rd Nacelle adds this bulk. Now it looks great from more angles!
The phaser Cannon is an ok idea, but I could do without it. Perhaps just have heavier/thicker phaser bank strips? But I don't hate it.
I would have loved to see this ship in the movies instead of that insect thing they call the Enterprise E. That thing is hideous.
For the purposes of the episode, it was fine. It instantly said "this is the same Enterprise but with more POWERRRRR!!!" It did the job it needed to do, and I enjoyed watching it kick some ass at the critical moment.
But it was a quick and dirty hatchet job. No grace, no elegance. Three nacelles doesn't even make much sense, and a whopping great phaser cannon is no good unless you're flying straight towards your target. Also, it looks ugly. Powerful, but ugly.
But it was a quick and dirty hatchet job. No grace, no elegance. Three nacelles doesn't even make much sense, and a whopping great phaser cannon is no good unless you're flying straight towards your target. Also, it looks ugly. Powerful, but ugly.
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