DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

[kirk55555]

Scott Snyder wasn't responsible for the alterations to Tim Drake. That was DC Editorial I believe and then Scott Lobdell who wrote them.

I wasn't trying to say that snyder was responsible for that garbage. I was just using it as an example of the New 52's inability to tell a good origin, which is really just a byproduct of every single change the New 52 has made being either terrible or pointless, but thats a different conversation.

 

[Admiral_Young]

The direction and mistakes that editorial have made since the relaunch has been discussed and covered in detail in the thread before. I don't think you'll find a lot of us who will disagree with you on that. As I've said before, not everything they've done is complete garbage as you claim. They have a lot of great books, just also a lot of crap as well.

I started out with roughly fifteen or sixteen books I think when the relaunch happened, now I'm down to about four or five (not including digital).

 

[Mike Farley]

Out of 39 #1's I've sampled (from the first 2 waves), I stuck with 17 titles--several of which have been canceled out from under me.A less than 50% stick ratio ain't that great. Overall, I'd guess that I'm buying about the same amount of titles I did before the relaunch.

On a related note, I've gone from 2 or 3 Marvel titles to considerably more in the wake of Marvel Now. Still, we'll see where that number lies in a year or so.

 

[Mr Light]

What I mean is, "Batman" is the most important book in terms of story and events. It's the book that creates the crossovers like Night of the Owls and Death of the Family. Now that it's going into the past, it's not the event book anymore. It's not going to control the flow of the other books' stories, it's going off on a tangent. I'll still enjoy the story I just find it a surprising move.

 

[Admiral_Young]

We don't know that at all. Snyder could be using "Year Zero" to build and set up a greater storyline we don't know about yet. Snyder has basically been de-constructing and rebuilding the mythos and the character since he started. This goes back to his and Kyle Higgins Gates of Gotham, which I believe was mentioned by someone before. This is still the "flagship" title for me. No other book in the family is doing the kinds of thing and has been as great as Snyder's book has been. (except perhaps Batman Incorporated which is the conclusion of Morrison's run). Exploring Bruce's past changes nothing for me...just seems a funny way to look at it to me I guess. *Shrugs*.

 

[theenglish]

I have been more than happy with Batman since the relaunch and will be content to let Snyder take me for another ride. Now that Detective is improving there will be plenty of great non-past stories being told I'm sure.

 

[Admiral_Young]

I'm sure we'll see numerous Trinity War tie-ins this summer as well

 

[Derishton]

There is no reason why a flashback story cannot be the main event in the flagship book: otherwise, Johns/Lee's Justice League wasn't the new52's flagship title when it was set five years back.

I was the one who mentioned that the flashback Batman story was probably going to pick up the Gates of Gotham/All-Star Western theme of Gotham as a sort of character, with the story shaped by architecture and geography. I'm standing by that and I'm interested. (Harper Row looks far more like a colossal dead-end to me, more of Snyder's revising the ideas of others and pretending it's new.)

 

[Admiral_Young]

Yeah same with the first arc of Action Comics taking place even further, and that was the best arc of Morrison's run so far IMO. It didn't make the book "any less" than it was. Justice League: Origin just suffered from bad writing and co-plotting. Otherwise it would have been as great as Johns run has been since Lee departed.

 

[Hound of UIster]

There is no reason why a flashback story cannot be the main event in the flagship book: otherwise, Johns/Lee's Justice League wasn't the new52's flagship title when it was set five years back.

I was the one who mentioned that the flashback Batman story was probably going to pick up the Gates of Gotham/All-Star Western theme of Gotham as a sort of character, with the story shaped by architecture and geography. I'm standing by that and I'm interested. (Harper Row looks far more like a colossal dead-end to me, more of Snyder's revising the ideas of others and pretending it's new.)

I think the opposite. Snyder seems to have abandoned the secret history of Gotham idea. It's only a subplot for All-Star Western and barely that now they are moving onto the Steampunk Stormwatch. Harper is VERY likely to be the next Robin given how he got Becky Cloonan to do the one shot. He has since revealed on twitter that he has known about Damien's death since he started on Batman.

 

[Admiral_Young]

Yeah Tomasai has known for the past two years as well (obviously) as did Chris Burnham when he read Morrison's season two outline. I'm almost certain that Harper will eventually be Robin and it will most likely be made an event throughout the Bat Family books but be concentrated in "Batman" when it does happen. We could even see it happen by the end of the year, but I doubt that.

 

[Derishton]

I think the opposite. Snyder seems to have abandoned the secret history of Gotham idea.

And now hes telling a story where Bruce builds the Bat-cave. That's architecture. You may well be right that it won't play into Snyder's earlier building-based plots, but if not, I will be happy to dismiss him as a one-hit wonder (that one hit being American Vampire). I also think you're possibly right about Harper Row, but I hope you're wrong (nothing against you; I just think double digits on Robins is too much.)

 

[Admiral_Young]

Bruce needs a human anchor though. Tim previously served this role in the comics, but DC obviously has other (questionable IMO) plans for him right now as Red Robin and establishing himself as his own hero. Harper I believe was specifically created by Snyder to serve this purpose, remember we were introduced to her all the way back in the first issue, and as we've seen with Snyder--like Morrison, usually there is a specific purpose for his characters in the overall plot. We know Stephanie is not coming back any time soon...maybe it's due to Harper's presence or not...that's an entirely different subject that we've already covered many times in the thread, but I believe that Harper will eventually become Bruce's next sidekick, at the very least provide that human anchor...at another time in Bruce's life where he needs one now, not only because of Damian's death but because of what the rest of his family and allies were just put through by Joker.

 

[Hound of UIster]

Snyder created Harper because he couldn't use Cassandra Cain since Dan Didio has some weird embargo over her and Steph.

 

[Admiral_Young]

Interesting. I didn't know that he wanted to use Cass.

 

[Icemizer]

I would be happy if she became Batmans new partner but was not named Robin until much later if at all.

 

[Derishton]

I'm with Icemizer, although I twitch at the thought of a new Oracle, too. I just can;t be helped.

I agree that Harper Row was introduced for a reason. Maybe it looked clumsy to me after the introduction of Carlie Cooper, which was also conducted as an insistence that the reader embrace her. What I do find interesting is that the preview of Batman 18 (I think) shows Blackgate, which might mean Harper is our eyes into anothe rpart of Gotham geography. (Less interesting is the clearly-cribbed family troubles with Dad: that's just taken straight from Stephanie Brown and Cluemaster, as per Snyder's usual Bat-writing.)

 

[Allyn Gibson]

Batman and Robin #18.

Damn. If the last three pages don't make you cry, you're not human.

 

[JoeZhang]

Bruce needs a human anchor though.

Did Jason still die post-52? If so, Bruce looks a bit of a sociopath - he's killed off two child Robins in less than five years and he's recruiting a third?

 

[Admiral_Young]

Jason still died...and more like Harper is auditioning for the job