The Constellation's registry number

[Spike730]

I'd say Starship class was used in the 2240s for the 17th cruiser design when the class was launched as Starfleet's state of the art ship of the line. These vessels were so prestigous that their commanding officers weren't simply captains but "Starship Fleet Captains" (Garth of Izar was referred to as such and it probably got later shortened to "Fleet Captain").

But then the 18th cruiser design and the 19th cruiser design were launched and the 17-cruisers weren't that special any more and everyone started to call them by their other class name.

 

[Robert Comsol]

Kirk said there were only twelve like the Enterprise in the fleet, but more than twelve Constitution-class ships have been counted.

There you go, 12 starships Enterprise Class and a yet to be established amount of Constitution Class starships.

Bob

 

[Spike730]

Strictly speaking there are only 11 Connies and one of them (Defiant) could've been under construction at the time Kirk stated that.

USS Constitution
USS Enterprise
USS Hood
USS Lexington
USS Defiant
USS Constellation
USS Excalibur
USS Exeter
USS Intrepid
USS Potemkin
NCC-1707

 

[Timo]

In dramatic terms, it would be quite a disappointment if the Enterprise turned out to be of Enterprise class in TOS. Suddenly, our bluecollar heroes, working stiffs from outer space, the everymen who play it straight in face of absurdity and bring space down to earth, would be thrust into a unique and noteworthy position by no virtue of their own, operating the class ship of a prestigious starship class.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Ronald Held]

Not highly satisfying, but perhaps several time traveling episodes made minor changes to the timeline before DTI was formed?

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Uh, practically everything we saw on TOS in space was a starship in some form or fashion, but the issue is whether they were of the prestigious Star Ship Class in context of TOS' universe. Kirk said there were only twelve like the Enterprise in the fleet, but more than twelve Constitution-class ships have been counted.

If it's a starship, it's a Star Ship.

 

[blssdwlf]

In the case of Excelsior, for whatever reason, they decided to convert the prototype to an active duty ship before building NCC-2001, which makes her number not technically correct, but these things happen sometimes in real life.

Or that is the norm? First ship is 2000 and that doesn't change and she's the first ship. First ship is 1700 and she's still the first ship. We're not given any indication that the Excelsior had an unusual naming convention or classification.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ And there's also NX-74205....

 

[blssdwlf]

^ And there's also NX-74205....

Which would seem to nix the idea of a series like 17xx or 20xx.

 

[EliyahuQeoni]

In the case of Excelsior, for whatever reason, they decided to convert the prototype to an active duty ship before building NCC-2001, which makes her number not technically correct, but these things happen sometimes in real life.

Or that is the norm? First ship is 2000 and that doesn't change and she's the first ship. First ship is 1700 and she's still the first ship. We're not given any indication that the Excelsior had an unusual naming convention or classification.

Oh, absolutely. There is nothing on screen to indicate any rhyme or reason to the registry numbers on starships. I was just pointing out how Jefferies' 17th ship design, 1st build template could be used despite there being an NCC-1700, which doesn't seem to fit. It makes just as much sense to have NCC-1700 be the first ship of the series, or have the first ship of the series/class be NCC-1681 for that matter. Nothing on screen says that Star Ship/Constitution/Enterprise have to have registries that start with NCC-17xx.

 

[Robert Comsol]

@ blssdwlf

I don't see the relevance of "NX-74205" (24th Century) for the NCC numbering scheme of the 23rd Century. I'd say that within a period of 100 years certain methods or nomenclatures will undergo some form of change and this might just be it.

There is nothing on screen to indicate any rhyme or reason to the registry numbers on starships. I was just pointing out how Jefferies' 17th ship design, 1st build template could be used despite there being an NCC-1700, which doesn't seem to fit. It makes just as much sense to have NCC-1700 be the first ship of the series, or have the first ship of the series/class be NCC-1681 for that matter. Nothing on screen says that Star Ship/Constitution/Enterprise have to have registries that start with NCC-17xx.

While I'd say the 17th design should start with a "17", I agree that the last two digits might merely be a random assignment and/or the actual (Naval Contact) Code, I refer to my post # 123 in the other thread.

There, we also discussed several proposals how to make sense of a registry like NCC-1697 (starship status display in "Court-Martial"). 97 starships of the 16th design? 16th cycle for all Starfleet vessels (Class ship is cycle leader) but limited to 100 vessels? "...97" indicating 17th starship built by the 5th fleet yard? et cetera

USS Oberth is NCC-602, USS Enterprise is (coincidentally?) NCC-1701, USS Excelsior is NX-2000 (had it been "2001" I'm certain most people would have agreed it should have been USS Discovery...) and the TNG Stargazer-type USS Constellation supposedly carries (or from a TOS point maybe could be) NCC-1974.

Theoretically, the NCC-1831 on the starship status display could have referred to the USS Miranda (class leader of the 18th design).

Bob

 

[Jonas Grumby]

This idea that ship classes are invariably named after the first ship of the class built is an invention of the spinoffs, though, isn't it? IIRC, TOS had "DY-100" and "DY-500" class freighters. And wasn't Christopher Pike crippled in a training accident on board a "J-class starship"? I'd be surprised if we ever saw an "S.S. DY-100" or the "USS J."

 

[Jonas Grumby]

Double post.

 

[EliyahuQeoni]

This idea that ship classes are invariably named after the first ship of the class built is an invention of the spinoffs, though, isn't it? IIRC, TOS had "DY-100" and "DY-500" class freighters. And wasn't Christopher Pike crippled in a training accident on board a "J-class starship"? I'd be surprised if we ever saw an "S.S. DY-100" or the "USS J."

And Enterprise has the NX-Class.

 

[Timo]

...Which may simply be the same as "AEGIS class": a description of what the ship does or carries, separate from any proper-name identity. The Enterprise class would simply be Starfleet's first and only starship built for the NX mission, with NX gear, hence the rare opportunity to use that other unique identifier.

Indeed, when Archer first uses the expression "NX class" in "Fortunate Son", he uses it to describe the power of his starship, just like a USN skipper would brag on having an AEGIS class vessel. The Boomers or the Nausicaans wouldn't know Enterprise class from Lollipop class, but they may have heard of the NX project...

NX class is UESF's only known starship design without a proper name - as opposed to Neptune class and possibly Triton class. The later UFP Starfleet only ever operated one starship class that didn't appear to have a proper name, and that may be because the training ship was a civilian design otherwise known as the J class. Or then there indeed existed a USS Jay.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Jonas Grumby]

^ I think we all agree that almost anything can be rationalized. We Trekkies are probably the best in the world at it! But the point is, when it comes to first ship of a class sharing the class name, if you want to cite a significant enough on-screen precedent to realistically consider it any kind of rule or even a commonality, you have to go to the spinoffs.

 

[blssdwlf]

@ blssdwlf

I don't see the relevance of "NX-74205" (24th Century) for the NCC numbering scheme of the 23rd Century. I'd say that within a period of 100 years certain methods or nomenclatures will undergo some form of change and this might just be it.

That's a good point. And as EliyahyQeoni brings up in a later post, the "NX" Class shows up with the Enterprise in the Enterprise series. It's changed over the series and years from "NX Class" to an "NX registry for prototypes" that also happens to include a lead ship like the Defiant Class in DS9.

This idea that ship classes are invariably named after the first ship of the class built is an invention of the spinoffs, though, isn't it? IIRC, TOS had "DY-100" and "DY-500" class freighters. And wasn't Christopher Pike crippled in a training accident on board a "J-class starship"? I'd be surprised if we ever saw an "S.S. DY-100" or the "USS J."

Technically, the dialogue in both "The Menagerie" and "Mudd's Women" spoke of the classification of the ship: "Class J starship/cargo ship" and not the name of ship class as in "J Class". Also, "The Menagerie" describes the shuttlecraft as a "Class F shuttlecraft". Classification, IMHO, speaks to the ship's capabilities or qualities and not to the class name.

In the same way, the "Starship Class" plaque on the TOS bridge doesn't say "Starship Class X" to indicate that is a classification. Instead it suggests that the TOS Enterprise belonged to a Starship Class with either a lead ship named USS Starship or a theme of Starship names.

The DY-100 and DY-500 is an interesting thought though. It does give the idea of a series like DY-1XX and DY-5XX. Or it could be very specific model numbers that many civilian/merchant ships were built. The Botany Bay might not be a good choice as an example though since she was off the books and probably didn't have a registry number.

But going back to "Starship Class", well it does suggest a USS Starship in TOS

 

[Jonas Grumby]

But going back to "Starship Class", well it does suggest a USS Starship in TOS

Only if you buy into that naming convention. Which one could make a pretty good case for from the spinoffs, but not from TOS itself.

 

[blssdwlf]

But going back to "Starship Class", well it does suggest a USS Starship in TOS

Only if you buy into that naming convention. Which one could make a pretty good case for from the spinoffs, but not from TOS itself.

Why is that? It's not like it said, "Starship Class J" on the plaque.

 

[Ssosmcin]

Uh, practically everything we saw on TOS in space was a starship in some form or fashion, but the issue is whether they were of the prestigious Star Ship Class in context of TOS' universe.

Backed up by this:

MERIK: He commands not just a spaceship, Proconsul, but a starship. A very special vessel and crew. I tried for such a command.

However it is spelled, it is certain a "starship" - meaning starship class, I imagine - is not anything like your average warp driven spacecraft. The SS Beagle of the merchant service obviously had warp drive, which makes it a Star Ship, but not a Starship.