If Not Wonder Woman...Then Who?

[Christopher]

Wasn't the most crowd thrilling moment for her when she was called a "mewling quim," which is Whedon-speak for "whining cunt?" Speaks for itself, I think.

Oh, come on. The villain called her that. Loki was trying to diminish and degrade her -- and he failed. She maintained total control of the situation, and by playing on his sexist assumptions and getting him to underestimate her, she manipulated him into giving away his plan. She out-tricked a trickster god. And that's why it was thrilling for the crowd -- not because the villain tried to demean Black Widow, but because she totally kicked his ass. We were supposed to hate him for the "mewling quim" line (which isn't "Whedon-speak" but an archaic British idiom in keeping with the way Asgardians normally speak in the Marvel Universe) and cheer when Natasha made him eat those words.

 

[stj]

^^^Oh, come on! You actually believed that? That was silly when she was tied in a chair and it was silly then. There are zero thrills when the script hands out an unearned freebie.

All that's left is the dialogue. A fitting archaism? The thrill of showing up Loki you pretend the scene is about would have been there if the line had been "pissy bitch" or "whiny cunt."
The word itself is all the scene has to offer.

 

[Professor Zoom]

^^^Oh, come on! You actually believed that? That was silly when she was tied in a chair and it was silly then. There are zero thrills when the script hands out an unearned freebie.

Yeah. Because THAT'S what happened. That's why the audience I watched it with cheered. Because the Widow got one over on Loki.

Facts iz facts.

All that's left is the dialogue. A fitting archaism? The thrill of showing up Loki you pretend the scene is about would have been there if the line had been "pissy bitch" or "whiny cunt."
The word itself is all the scene has to offer.

Yeah.... no. It's a fun scene. The look on Loki's face when he realizes he's been taken... hilarious.

 

[Technobuilder]

It's true. Black Widow was good.

In truth Hawkeye got the short end of the stick in Avengers, he was basically Mind Controlled the whole damn time.

 

[stj]

...Facts iz facts...The look on Loki's face when he realizes he's been taken... hilarious.

It was the same look on the Russian guy's face the first time they did the purported joke. Don't want to be quarrelsome, but it sure isn't a fact that the same joke is funnier the second time round. I don't think there was even any particular mirth the first time.

Now it's nice for you if you could believe that, but really, since there's no difference between Loki's dumb expression and Russian whozis' dumb expression, the bang from the second scene comes from the pizzazz added by Loki's use of the word "quim."



There's a reason why I rated the movie as no better than a C. And there's a reason why I found it completely unwatchable on DVD. The movie's just not good enough without the real pizzazz of a movie screen. This reliance on shock value in this scene exposes Whedon's failure to write a good script.

 

[Hound of UIster]

This reliance on shock value in this scene exposes Whedon's failure to write a good script.

Other than the the carnival attraction of crossing over characters from 4 different Marvel movies together, there is really not much going story-wise for Avengers.

 

[Professor Zoom]

It was the same look on the Russian guy's face the first time they did the purported joke. Don't want to be quarrelsome, but it sure isn't a fact that the same joke is funnier the second time round. I don't think there was even any particular mirth the first time.

Of course you want to be quarrelsome. If anything, that moment sets up the moment later with Loki. And she took on THE Trickster God... and won. It's funny. The audience I saw it with LAUGHED.

Now it's nice for you if you could believe that,

See... right there... being condescending... THAT'S meant to be quarrelsome. Yeah. I believe that seen is funny. So do a LOT of other people.... So, why don't you dial it back a little?

but really, since there's no difference between Loki's dumb expression and Russian whozis' dumb expression, the bang from the second scene comes from the pizzazz added by Loki's use of the word "quim."

As I said, the Russian scene sets it up... and we think that Loki ACTUALLY gets under her skin.

It's fine you didn't like it. But for a lot of other people, it did.

There's a reason why I rated the movie as no better than a C.

Great! So?

And there's a reason why I found it completely unwatchable on DVD. The movie's just not good enough without the real pizzazz of a movie screen. This reliance on shock value in this scene exposes Whedon's failure to write a good script.

I don't think the script was a failure... out of the ballpark, no. I think the beginning, getting the team together is pretty slow. But once everyone is together, it's a lot of fun, the characters feel like they do in other movies, and there's some fun moments... "Puny God" comes to mind.

 

[stj]

Other than the the carnival attraction of crossing over characters from 4 different Marvel movies together, there is really not much going story-wise for Avengers.

That's a lot. At least it was watchable on the big screen. And while Whedon may have failed, he at least tried to do something with Romanov.

"Its fine you didn't like it." Is it really fine? Wasn't the claim "fact iz facts," meaning that the scene is funny and thrilling? Perhaps condescension isn't as easy to read as to hear?
Could I have misread? Could someone else have misread too?

There may not really be any disagreement as to whether someone has a right to laugh.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Last night on GOON, that new sitcom with Chandler, they sat down in hotel room to watch Avengers on payperview, and not the porn version... Which isn't awful.

For such a failure it's nice how that flick is still in the muggles minds.

 

[DarKush]

I guess what I was getting at with my post is the Marvel has more female characters that I would be interested in seeing having solo projects, not so much that they already have popular solo female characters. Ms. Marvel, for instance, I would love to see developed as a solo franchise, or at least introduced in the next Avengers movie. I think Marvel has some fantastic female characters that have a lot of potential to be far more popular then they are.

I think Marvel has been building up Carol Danvers for a while now, so we'll see if she gets a movie or at least an important role in the SHIELD show or some upcoming Marvel TV show. From what I read of her Ms. Marvel series I liked it and could see some of that being adapted for the big or small screen. As for the new Captain Marvel series, it hasn't really grabbed me, though I did like the Carol-Monica Rambeau team up.

I do agree that Marvel does have some great female characters, and wouldn't mind seeing more in solo projects in print or on the screen.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Last night on GOON, that new sitcom with Chandler, they sat down in hotel room to watch Avengers on payperview, and not the porn version... Which isn't awful.

For such a failure it's nice how that flick is still in the muggles minds.

GOON? Isn't it called "Go On"?

 

[Guy Gardener]

I watched the show, and assumed that there was typo in the credits.

 

[Melakon]

What about a retro-costumed Black Canary? Strapless corset, fishnet stockings, little jacket, and pirate boots?

 

[Guy Gardener]

Briefly wasn't Lori Loughlin wedged into that outfit in Birds of Prey?

 

[A beaker full of death]

If they mangle it, they can pretty much put any non-male derivative heroine out there (e.g. Batgirl no, Widow yes).
If you want a real superheroine (and no one really does, it seems, hence all the black leather), then Wonder Woman is a lock. But done right, a la the Carter series.
I guess they could do something with Scarlet Witch. Not sure what. She's never stood on her own much. And she couldn't very well be Scarlet Witch in black leather.
Otherwise, it's gotta be La Femme Natasha.

 

[Dream]

What about a retro-costumed Black Canary? Strapless corset, fishnet stockings, little jacket, and pirate boots?

They might as well put nipples on the batsuit too.

 

[Melakon]

Briefly wasn't Lori Loughlin wedged into that outfit in Birds of Prey?

Yeah, but I can't find a full length shot in costume, so no cheesecake tonight.

 

[Guy Gardener]

What about Death of the Endless?

Cute little Goth thing, and alpowerful.

I'm liking Erica Dasher or Ksenia Solo for the part.

Still obviously a primer for the Sandman Movies.

But that comes later.

 

[Christopher]

Briefly wasn't Lori Loughlin wedged into that outfit in Birds of Prey?

Yeah, but I can't find a full length shot in costume, so no cheesecake tonight.

I just saw that episode recently, and I don't remember if she donned the full outfit. Generally the show wasn't much for superhero costumes, aside from the couple of times they put Dina Meyer in a repainted version of the Batgirl costume left over from Batman and Robin.

 

[Guy Gardener]

"Strikeback" because they were too cheap(?) to use Nightwings was barely a cape.