That "Ultimate Computer" engine room has to be in the primary hull because of the long curving hallway walk to the engine room and the same walk leaving the engine room. I think that is one of the few episodes that has to be up there due to space reasons. Mytran, your turbolift times would be pretty consistent with the locations on the ship in this case.
Kirk's Television Enterprise Deck Plans WIP
- Thread starter Robert Comsol
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No, it does not have to be in the primary / saucer hull which is exactly the point these WIP deck plans try to illustrate and I addressed the circular corridor radius issue in the introduction.
1. According to the known Season Two studio set plan this would put the UC engine room in the center of the saucer's stern and pretty much block any kind of turbo lift travel between the saucer and the engineering hull (regardless whether you prefer a horizontal/vertical turbo shaft design or the diagonal one I'm advocating).
2. There would be a noticable height difference (which you discovered, BTW) between the Impulse Engine Room(s) from Season One (which do leave turbo shaft space and look like a foresighted Matt Jefferies intention) like "Court-Martial" and a mirrored Season Two engine room. Not only would the height differences look strange but the corridor allignment would be more severely compromised than in the reduced radius concept I'm proposing for the engineering hull around the engineering hull's antimatter pod (where also the circular engineering hull corridors seen in Season One retain their obvious and essential circular nature).
3. The UC engine room features the floor structure commonly associated with the dilithium crystal converter assembly and/or the matter-antimatter reactors. As you brilliantly concluded two of these reactors are in the nacelles and one is inside the engineering hull. It seems to make sense to have this kind of floor structure rather close to any of these three reactors than up in the comparably remote saucer hull.
Bob
If the radius of the corridor is taken literally, then the Ultimate Computer Engine Room either needs to be in the saucer, or be situated in an Enterprise larger than 947' (even 1080' barely squeezes it in) or tweak the structure of the corridor based on what was actually seen in the episode (I proposed something using a slight pivot here)
If the radius of the corridor is "squinted at" then, as per Robert_Comsol's plans the ship can accommodate it, although it does generate a secondary hull with quite a lot of corridor space...
As I mentioned in my post about the travel times above, we never see the start of the journey in Ultimate Computer so it might actually be longer, allowing for sufficient transit time down the secondary hull.
Personally, I lean to it being another room belonging to the Engineering section but one that is not used for propulsion control (after all, why should all Engine Rooms be solely used for this purpose? Starfleet may favour the layout for it's multiple disciple design, much as the producers of the show did).
I see it this way: In U.C, Kirk and gang travel to a part of the saucer where M-5 has been installed - an Engine Room, but one at the FRONT of the ship, behind those 3 round thingies which (in this argument) are the saucer deflector beam emitters. They are naturally part of the vessel's navigation systems, which is ideal since M-5 requires access to those circuits also. Deflector systems of course require a lot of power, and it is one of those main lines that M-5 taps into (much of the dismay of that poor engineer!)
Of course with my layout decribed above there is no need to give up these two engine rooms at all!
The ease at which the S1 engine room set mirrors itself, allowing an 8' gap inbetween is a piece of design which impresses me as much today as when I first saw it - it really would be shame not to make use of it. I would also like to use full-length "cathedral tubes" but unfortunately the directors of different episodes couldn't resist shooting the set from the wrong angles, so bang goes that forced perspective illusion!!!
"Of course with my layout decribed above there is no need to give up these two engine rooms at all!
The ease at which the S1 engine room set mirrors itself, allowing an 8' gap inbetween is a piece of design which impresses me as much today as when I first saw it - it really would be shame not to make use of it."
Indeed, although the rectangular nature of the transporter room would make it an interesting alternate candidate for the starboard side but I presume the majority of fans expects a symmetrical arrangement here.
"I would also like to use full-length "cathedral tubes" but unfortunately the directors of different episodes couldn't resist shooting the set from the wrong angles, so bang goes that forced perspective illusion!!!
If you're taking it too literal, yes, but I feel very comfortable with the original producer's intention which was to show us a cathedral that extends further than what was actually there, though according to my estimates would still be limited to a depth of 8 meters, judging by the tube's diameters and the space in-between these (illustrated on my engineering deck 9 draft).
Bob
First, I'd like to mention that you could be correct about the "missing" beginning of the turbo lift ride in U.C. We hear the log entry of Kirk and the actual dialogue does not start until they are in the turbo lift (though the turbo lift acceleration sound may be an issue unless they just changed from horizontal to vertical travel the moment McCoy delivers his opinion).
I do have doubts whether the corrected forced perspective would yield a length of 100' / 30 meters. I think Kirk's movement in front of the cathedral in "The Changeling" gives us an idea of the real size of the first tube frame. Assuming these pipes do not gain (!) in diameter the further the cathedral extends, the space in between these is 1.5 - 2 times that of each forward or (smaller) aft tube. If you take the far end of the cathedral as a reference point (and ignore the tube diameter) you'll get a bigger depth but an odd looking much wider space between these tubes, IMHO.
Bob
Hi Bob,
Here is my analysis of the hallways directly connected to Rand's quarters. What is actually visible is less than I thought it would be. Probably less than a 3rd the length of the s1 curved corridor (which is quite less than the s2 corridor.)
Basically:
1. She likely moved between "The Enemy Within" and "Charlie X". Her door signs are different ("3C 46" vs "3F 125"). In "Charlie X" there is a yellow door across the hall which was not present in the previous episode.
2. Kirk's walk to Rand's cabin in "The Enemy Within" is shot with a tight zoom in such a way there is no easy way to tell if there is any curvature.
3. In "Charlie X" there are some slight curvature cues starting at the door she exits from as she walks towards Charlie.
4. In "Charlie X" the wall and door across from her cabin are parallel and do not show any curvature.
That pretty much sums up the hallway(s) next to Rand's two different quarters.
Contrast this to "The Ultimate Computer"'s corridor where we can see everything about it, curvature and length, due to the camera traveling with the characters on a fairly wide zoom.
Here is my analysis of the hallways directly connected to Rand's quarters. What is actually visible is less than I thought it would be. Probably less than a 3rd the length of the s1 curved corridor (which is quite less than the s2 corridor.)
Basically:
1. She likely moved between "The Enemy Within" and "Charlie X". Her door signs are different ("3C 46" vs "3F 125"). In "Charlie X" there is a yellow door across the hall which was not present in the previous episode.
2. Kirk's walk to Rand's cabin in "The Enemy Within" is shot with a tight zoom in such a way there is no easy way to tell if there is any curvature.
3. In "Charlie X" there are some slight curvature cues starting at the door she exits from as she walks towards Charlie.
4. In "Charlie X" the wall and door across from her cabin are parallel and do not show any curvature.
That pretty much sums up the hallway(s) next to Rand's two different quarters.
Contrast this to "The Ultimate Computer"'s corridor where we can see everything about it, curvature and length, due to the camera traveling with the characters on a fairly wide zoom.
"The Enemy Within":
Although it's not completely available at Trekcore, the scene with Fisher running to the intercom panel reveals the corridor outside Janice's cabin (the odd thing here is, that he must have left the briefing room set to get to the panel, notice the red alert light further down the wall but opposite Janice's cabin door):
"Charlie X":
You're right, this is no longer cabin 3C 46 but 3F 125 and the yellow door is missing in the above shot. I concur this is a different cabin, but where?
It was Harry Mudd's cabin number in "Mudd's Women", but then the environmental ladder booth has been sealed by the time of "Charlie X".
Or it was on Main Deck 5 before Spock moved in ("Amok Time"), but then the entire corridor underwent a major refit.
I think I'll prefer she moved into Mudd's former cabin:
Bob
Although it's not completely available at Trekcore, the scene with Fisher running to the intercom panel reveals the corridor outside Janice's cabin (the odd thing here is, that he must have left the briefing room set to get to the panel, notice the red alert light further down the wall but opposite Janice's cabin door):
"Charlie X":
You're right, this is no longer cabin 3C 46 but 3F 125 and the yellow door is missing in the above shot. I concur this is a different cabin, but where?
It was Harry Mudd's cabin number in "Mudd's Women", but then the environmental ladder booth has been sealed by the time of "Charlie X".
Or it was on Main Deck 5 before Spock moved in ("Amok Time"), but then the entire corridor underwent a major refit.
I think I'll prefer she moved into Mudd's former cabin:
Bob
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"The Enemy Within":
Although it's not completely available at Trekcore, the scene with Fisher running to the intercom panel reveals the corridor outside Janice's cabin (the odd thing here is, that he must have left the briefing room set to get to the panel, notice the red alert light further down the wall but opposite Janice's cabin door):
I think so, if we were just looking at the stage set. I had considered including that hallway scene but decided not to because I had no direct linkage back to the door of Rand's cabin that Fisher and Kirk start from. I know you can get to this corridor after you turn right after you leave the cabin but do not know how far Fisher ran or if he turned left or right again to get to the intercom.
I have a sneaking suspicion that I've seen "3F 125" with another room on a different deck so it might not be an indicator of deck number. As to where? Dunno, your guess is as good as any.
It was Harry Mudd's cabin number in "Mudd's Women", but then the environmental ladder booth has been sealed by the time of "Charlie X".
Or it was on Main Deck 5 before Spock moved in ("Amok Time"), but then the entire corridor underwent a major refit.
I think I'll prefer she moved into Mudd's former cabin:
Bob
It'll be a fun game of pick up sticks. Eventually all the rooms and corridors will get mapped and hopefully it all falls into place
"Sadly"? Shall I remind you who the evildoer was (it's written all over your avatar)?
But regardless, there would be another circular corridor adjacent to Janice's cabin.
Yesterday I did some prelimary tests to visualize the Main Sensor-Deflector Engine Room on E-Deck 12 close to the bow of the engineering hull. Janice's cabin "3C 46" would move to the 10 o'clock position (with no need to visualize an ongoing circular corridor moving starboard thanks to "3F 125" in "Charlie X"), but there'd still be a hint of a circular and parallel corridor.
In an ideal world / look I'd prefer a horseshoe corridor arrangement in the engineering hull.
Bob
P.S. This yellow door opposite Janice's cabin is irritating me. They didn't change the actual studio set just to have Fisher hit the intercom panel without the yellow door between the intercom panel and the red alert light?!
I'm afraid we won't be able to find an optimal solution. Cabin # 3F 125 is also Spock's cabin on Main Deck 5. Relocate Janice's cabin from "Charlie X" there and you have major corridor upgrade rationalizations before "Amok Time" (and need to explain where Spock resided during "Charlie X"...
).
If we assume these used to be Mudd's quarters (also 3F 125) in the engineering hull we'll have these minor upgrades you mentioned.
Or we find a better way to decipher the code on these signs. My current assumption is this: 3 = three-room-cabin (office, bedroom, bathroom), F = section on this deck (could probably work if the bow section of the engineering hull begins with Section A and then progresses towards the stern), 125 = cabin number (while I have no problem with 125 cabins in the saucer, 125 in the engineering hull is way too much).
Maybe it's cabin # 25 and the "1" stands for something like first class. Compared to the cells of the brig Mudd's quarters in "Mudd's Women" would probably qualify as a first class cell.
Bob
P.S. One thing that's impossible to rationalize: There's a side corridor near the officers quarters where the bathroom / extra room has to be (e.g. "Mirror, Mirror", "By Any Other Name").
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I noticed the side corridor as well. The question then is that corridor present in the same episode we also see the "bathroom" door?
Edit: The possibility then is that the crew is moved around alot for various reasons so every episode they could potentially be in a different cabin. The "code" on the door could be some differentiation as you suggest like cabin class or environmental capability compared to other cabins rather than a location indicator.
Edit: The possibility then is that the crew is moved around alot for various reasons so every episode they could potentially be in a different cabin. The "code" on the door could be some differentiation as you suggest like cabin class or environmental capability compared to other cabins rather than a location indicator.
If that were the case we could all sleep better.
It's quite ridiculous if you think about it. In 90% of the Season One sets you had the space for the bathroom, we saw the door but never the inside.
Then, by Season Two, they started showing us what's behind the door
but because of the new corridor there's no more space for it.
I like the narrow closet idea, but where do our protagonists then go when they need to go?
Bob
Robert, I just happened to notice that all these thumbnail pictures you're using all over the place are hotlinked from trekcore.com. That's a big no-no, even for something as small as that. You need to convert them to links or upload the pictures somewhere else like Photobucket.
I think the narrow closet seems to be the best bet.
As to where is the bathroom - we have the bedroom section:
1. either somewhere behind the red curtain or
2. on the door side where we cannot see. Chapel and Kirk don't appear to go towards that door for some reason and opt for the entrance/exit by the "narrow closet".
Behind the curtain is the best bet - we see where the other door goes and we get a pretty good look of Spock's cabin throughout the rest of the episode.
But in any case, there were never intended to BE bathrooms adjacent to the cabin set. As seen here: http://www.startrekhistory.com/DS4.html that door was meant to be a decent sized closet. Sadly that scene ended up on the cutting room floor, but it does jive with the overall utlitarian feel of the ship. Plus, no-one bats an eylid when a shirtless captain goes striding through the corridors (on his way to the bridge, no less). Might this suggest that there's nothing unusual about officers and crew strolling around the hallways to get to the nearest washroom? Given the (supposed) ease at which the crew of this futuristic have around each other physically, it is certainly a possibilty.
If true, it also clears up an oddity in Elaan of Troiyus. Here, Uhura gives up her quarters for the spoilt little princess. What's so special about these quarters? Yes they have some nice drapes and lots of breakable objects but is space on the Enterprise really at such a premium that NOWHERE else could be made available? Quote a departure from Journey To BabelI! Fortunately, the episode does provide an answer, for at one points Elaan locks herself in what is almost certainly an ensuite bathroom. So, what's that doing there? Uhura could certainly charm a few of the technicians back in Man Trap to do her bidding, and as a high ranking officer would command the authority to have the empty space adjacent to her cabin into a personal toilet area. On the Enterprise, this would be an unusual feature. So unusual in fact that Uhura may have been "volunteered" to give up her sanctum for the visiting dignitary.
Any thoughts?
But in any case, there were never intended to BE bathrooms adjacent to the cabin set. As seen here: http://www.startrekhistory.com/DS4.html that door was meant to be a decent sized closet. Sadly that scene ended up on the cutting room floor, but it does jive with the overall utlitarian feel of the ship. Plus, no-one bats an eylid when a shirtless captain goes striding through the corridors (on his way to the bridge, no less). Might this suggest that there's nothing unusual about officers and crew strolling around the hallways to get to the nearest washroom? Given the (supposed) ease at which the crew of this futuristic have around each other physically, it is certainly a possibilty.
If true, it also clears up an oddity in Elaan of Troiyus. Here, Uhura gives up her quarters for the spoilt little princess. What's so special about these quarters? Yes they have some nice drapes and lots of breakable objects but is space on the Enterprise really at such a premium that NOWHERE else could be made available? Quote a departure from Journey To BabelI! Fortunately, the episode does provide an answer, for at one points Elaan locks herself in what is almost certainly an ensuite bathroom. So, what's that doing there? Uhura could certainly charm a few of the technicians back in Man Trap to do her bidding, and as a high ranking officer would command the authority to have the empty space adjacent to her cabin into a personal toilet area. On the Enterprise, this would be an unusual feature. So unusual in fact that Uhura may have been "volunteered" to give up her sanctum for the visiting dignitary.
Any thoughts?
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