Celebrity paradoxes

[Nerys Myk]

And I never said Alternate Universe, either. However "Enterprise" is undeniably an altered timeline since from the very first episode the actions of "Future Guy" and his Suliban frontmen brought Starfleet into contact with the Klingon Empire prematurely. No small change that.

How so? All we know about first contact with the Klingons is happened centuries before TNG and it didn't go well. We dont even know which first contact it was. Klingon and Humans? Klingon and Vulcans? Klingons and Andorians? Its a bit a vague. The Human and Klingon FC meets the criteria since it happens roughly two centuries prior to TNG and as a result relations between Humans and Klingons got off to a rocky start that pretty much went downhill from there. So no change in what was shown in Enterprise and what was mentioned in TNG.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Which universe is the alternate one again?

In Storm Front, part two, Daniels said this: The timeline's resetting itself .... all of the damage he caused, it never happened.

From that I get that basically the first two seasons of ST: Enterprise existed in an alternate universe. What the NX-01 did originally in the prime universe is difficult to say. But whatever it was, it would have been at least somewhat different than the events depicted on the show.

The first two season are not a part of the history of the other series, any more than the events of In A Mirror Darkly.

That doesn't hold up at all. Daniels was referring to the damage Vosk and the other factions did when did when the TCW went nuclear, creating the alt-WWII timeline.

Events from seasons 1-3 are repeatedly referenced in season 4. The Enterprise crew lived it, and other characters like Captain Hernandez and Soval and especially Shran were familiar with those events. Some of the stories, like the Vulcan reformation arc and the Vulcan/Andorian war, were continuations of previous stories.

I really don't see the need to explain real-life story retcons (i.e. rewriting Klingon/human first contact, ignoring parts of "Balance of Terror") in an in-universe perspective, let alone in a way that makes Enterprise, or part of it at least, essentially all a dream.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I never said I didn't "like" the ship being named Enterprise, simply exploring a realistic reason for a models absence from a wall.

I don't see going for the alternate universe/changed timeline solution as realistic.

Me neither. Enterprise always happened; there was never a timeline (outside of the 'Borg assimilated Earth' one that's seen briefly in ST:FC) where it did not. Picard and co. changed nothing in that film, except putting things back the way they always were. ENT is not a result of Picard's actions. In-universe, even TOS existed in a timeline where ENT has already happened.

As for why the NX-01 wasn't in the rec room scene in TMP: Do we really need to go through this shit again? For the thousandth fucking time: Not every real world Enterprise was in it either. For instance, it only had the FIRST aircraft carrier, not the second. Yet obviously both carriers exist. They simply had to pick and choose which ships to show in that scene. Just because the NX wasn't in it, doesn't mean it didn't exist!

 

[T'Girl]

I really don't see the need to explain real-life story retcons (i.e. rewriting Klingon/human first contact, ignoring parts of "Balance of Terror") in an in-universe perspective

I do.

Just because the NX wasn't in it, doesn't mean it didn't exist!

I never say it didn't exist, my position is that it originally possessed a different name.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ Okay then, remember what I just said about aircraft carriers. The CVN-65, the real carrier that was (is?) recently retired, was not in that scene. Yet obviously it exists. So how can you claim that the NX didn't exist, because it wasn't in that scene, yet you presumably would not say the same thing about CVN-65?

 

[E-DUB]

CVN-65? Is that the current Enterprise? If so, we know that it existed in the Trek timeline because it was the "Nuclear Wessel" seen in ST4.

 

[T'Girl]

I thought Chekov misidentified the ship, and the vessel he and Uhura were looking at was actual the Ranger.

 

[F. King Daniel]

IIRC, the Enterprise was at sea when STIV was filmed, so the Enterprise was "played" by the Ranger.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ That's right. The ship used for filming was the Ranger, but in-universe, it was Enterprise.

CVN-65? Is that the current Enterprise? If so, we know that it existed in the Trek timeline because it was the "Nuclear Wessel" seen in ST4.

Exactly! We know it existed, and yet it wasn't in the TMP rec room wall scene. So that proves that said scene is meaningless in determining the legitimacy of any given ship called Enterprise. If a ship's not there, that doesn't mean SHIT regarding any supposed changes to the timeline...

Decker's specific words were "All these vessels were called Enterprise." He did not say that "These were all the vessels called Enterprise."

 

[F. King Daniel]

Pehaps those pictures in TMP were "really" monitors that slowly cycled between shots of different Enterprises, and it just wasn't shown for long enough to cycle through to the NX-01.

 

[Timo]

It can go either way. A dedication plaque doesn't rotate through various images and ads, but OTOH most dedication plaques don't have a big alcove or shrine dedicated to them in a facility intended for recreation...

The fun thing is, the nuclear Enterprise CVN-65 is in practice more or less a "nuclearized" Ranger CV-61 anyway. That is, both ships use the same basic hull design and flight deck arrangement. Indeed, "65" is a number in the same running sequence as "61", and the real-world hop from "64" to "65" basically just entailed installing eight nuclear reactors where conventional boilers would otherwise have gone, and building a funny-looking cubical command tower or "island" bristling with (for the time) modern radar technology.

Apparently, in the Star Trek reality, only the reactors were installed, and the island remained of the Ranger type - until some later date when the cubical island was installed, so that Picard's and Archer's ships have artwork of this configuration.

Or then in both realities, CVN-65 was initially built with the cubical island, but only the Star Trek reality saw the refitting that was planned in our reality as well but was never performed - that of stripping away the now completely outdated radar system and reducing the silhouette of the island from cubical to conventional. And Archer and Picard thus enjoy artwork of the original configuration, yet Chekov visited the refitted ship...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[T'Girl]

At some point the Star Trek universe separated overtly from our own. Certainly the space program of the 1960's kept going strong in their's, where our universe's space program petered out in the early 1970's.

They also might have got to the moon a year before we did.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Yet every time they visit the past, it looks remarkably like our present.

 

[Timo]

Heck, their future looks remarkably like our present, too.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[T'Girl]

Fashions seem similar.