Well, you didn't say "first attempt," so I didn't know that was what you meant. And I wasn't claiming my listing was exhaustive.
How did TMP get a G rating?
- Thread starter t_smitts
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I don't know. I thought the Banshee in Darby O'Gill and the Little People was pretty creepy . . . .
You're right.
True, but if you'll read the original script for our conversation, or read the book The Making of This Thread, you'll see that there is plenty of evidence for my original intentions and no support for your position. Therefore, you are wrong. And if you disagree, I shall be forced to call you names and discount anything further you may ever have to say.
Dennis, as a pro how would you have handled it?
Kirk also doesn't seem to grieve much when Ilia gets zapped by the probe. Decker does, of course, and doesn't like the cavalier way Kirk assigns Decker to work with the recreated Ilia-Probe as a sort of 'secret agent'. Kirk being somewhat empathetically challenged is very much a theme in TMP. I think they were going with him having a very selfish one-track mind to retake command of the Enterprise, so much so that it gave him a borderline personality disorder. When we get to Khan, Kirk behaves more like himself, but is just bored and brooding and not so much of a jerk.
That scene has always made me uncomfortable, particularly the way he says, "Carry out your assignment, Mr. Decker," as though there's no reason at all why Decker shouldn't be reluctant to interact with the Ilia-probe.
Later, after Spock was traumatized by his attempted mind-meld with V'Ger, Kirk stood at his bedside and demanded answers, even when it become apparent that Spock was too exhausted to even answer his questions. At the end of the scene, Kirk ordered that Spock be returned to duty, not taking McCoy or Chapel's feelings about his condition into consideration.
"I need Spock on the bridge."
Did he not think about Spock's fitness for duty? Did it occur to him that having a crew member working so soon after an injury could have placed the ship at risk? Spock had recovered, but there was no way to know that would happen when Kirk first discovered him floating back to the Enterprise, unconscious.
More to the point, the script needed Spock on the bridge. The story couldn't have resolved the way it had to if Spock had been stuck in a bed in sickbay for the rest of the movie. So Kirk's command decisions had to be what the story needed them to be.
My teacher in high school English class wouldn't let us see the nude scene...
IIRC, they were deliberately aiming for a "G" because they knew that "Star Trek" had appeal with families. Hence, they didn't dwell on Deltan pheromones and Ilia's Oath of Celibacy, nor was there a lingering look at the transporter accident victims. The death/digitizing of the security guard was also trimmed early.
^Whereas The Black Hole was deliberately aiming for a PG rating, since it was Disney's attempt to branch out into more adult fare.
Then:
G: Everyone can see it
PG: Everyone can see it, might want to go with your kids
R: Kids shouldn't see this, but it's up to you
X: Bewbies
Now
G: This is a Disney movie
PG: This is a movie your older kids want to see.
PG-13: This is a movie your older kids want to see and the bare minimum of what would be funny to an adult
R: This movie has action
NC-17: Bewbies
X: Vintage bewbies
G: Everyone can see it
PG: Everyone can see it, might want to go with your kids
R: Kids shouldn't see this, but it's up to you
X: Bewbies
Now
G: This is a Disney movie
PG: This is a movie your older kids want to see.
PG-13: This is a movie your older kids want to see and the bare minimum of what would be funny to an adult
R: This movie has action
NC-17: Bewbies
X: Vintage bewbies
"IIRC, they were deliberately aiming for a "G" because they knew that "Star Trek" had appeal with families. "
There's no way TMP was going to appeal to young kids. I was 9 when it came out and the cerebral plot was pushing it for me. The studio really made a mistake when they greenlit the script if that's what their intention was. Not only that, but the whole Deltan thing would have been pushing things for TV had they followed through with Phase II. TV standards and practice didn't start changing until the mid 80s, spearheaded by stuff like Married with Children.
There's no way TMP was going to appeal to young kids. I was 9 when it came out and the cerebral plot was pushing it for me. The studio really made a mistake when they greenlit the script if that's what their intention was. Not only that, but the whole Deltan thing would have been pushing things for TV had they followed through with Phase II. TV standards and practice didn't start changing until the mid 80s, spearheaded by stuff like Married with Children.
I recall M*A*S*H being pretty racy for it's time, and often had pretty strong language for the time period. I remember hearing words like Bastard, G'Damnnit, Hell, maybe even a bitch or two and I was pretty shocked, because you just didn't hear words like that on Network Television unless it was a rare event
The MASH movie was pretty sexual. the MASH TV series wasn't. It was implied that Hot Lips was banging around but it was very understated compared to the movie.
What passed for racy back then was "jiggle" TV such as Wonder Woman, Three's Company, and Charlie's Angels. But all that stuff was obscured by some sort of "it's part of the story" plausible deniability or layer upon layer of coded innuendo. Quite different from having frank discussions of sexual liaisons in and out of the bedroom which has now become routine in things like How I Met Your Mother or punch lines like "sperm dumpster" in Family Guy.
What passed for racy back then was "jiggle" TV such as Wonder Woman, Three's Company, and Charlie's Angels. But all that stuff was obscured by some sort of "it's part of the story" plausible deniability or layer upon layer of coded innuendo. Quite different from having frank discussions of sexual liaisons in and out of the bedroom which has now become routine in things like How I Met Your Mother or punch lines like "sperm dumpster" in Family Guy.
I don't mean all young kids. But Paramount's and Roddenberry's feedback from the conventions of the 70s was that whole families watched "Star Trek" together over a decade of early prime time repeats. It was essential that those fans would be able to attend a theatrical version.
Sure, lots of kids attended and were bored to death (same with many of their parents) but had they been excluded due to the film's rating, the negative publicity may have been disastrous.
Check out the tie-ins for ST:TMP: the first Mcdonald's "Happy Meals" themed boxes, plastic mugs and cereal bowls, kids' pajamas, plastic colouring cloths for the party table, water pistol TMP phasers, etc.
I think what happened with Trek in general is that during reruns it was watched by young kids (myself included) even though it did not target that demographic. That explains TAS. Kids are more sophisticated than most adults give them credit for, beyond a certain age at least. When I was growing up I resented the way things like Superfriends talked down to kids. That sort of thing persisted through the 80s with stuff like He-Man which featured "moral" segments at the end. There's a sweet-spot for family entertainment that I think companies like Pixar wound up striking in which you can engage kids with a fully fledged storyline that neither talks down to them nor bores their parents. Even though TMP got a G, I don't think it hit that sweet spot, not just because of the philosophical aspects of V'Ger, but also because the characters lost the casual familial quality that they had in TOS. Certainly something like Trek IV was a family film, and was the highest grossing TOS film, right?
In raw numbers, yes, if you define "TOS" to exclude the Abrams interpretation. But corrected for inflation, TMP was actually the highest-grossing Trek film until the 2009 film broke all previous Trek box-office records. Although TMP came out at a time when movies stayed in theaters far longer, so if you correct for that, TVH might come out ahead. But TMP would still have a stronger showing than most of its successors. Maybe it had more audience appeal than you think.
Again, I think it's important to remember that in 1979, the G rating did not have the "kids' movie" connotation that it has today. It was used for films that were suitable for family viewing -- movies that didn't have anything parents might not want their kids to see, like sex scenes or gore, but were not necessarily aimed at children. That's the case with TMP. It was meant to be a sophisticated science fiction film with adult appeal; it was simply kept free of content that might make adults think they had to leave the kids with a sitter when they went to see it.
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