question regarding self-replicating minefield protecting wormhole

[Romulan_spy]

Ok, so we know the self-replicating minefield is able to create new mines to replace any mines that are destroyed. But wouldn't it still be possible to destroy the minefield if you are able to destroy the mines faster than new ones are replicated? Especially, considering that the Dominion and Cardassians had a huge fleet of ships, couldn't they had just targeted all the mines at once?

 

[Timo]

Certainly. But it was impossible to target even a single mine, as the mines were invisible.

Just firing blindly at a high density of fire would be bad for two reasons: you still wouldn't hit anything much, and you would be pumping out so much energy that the replicators in the mines could "feed" on that to create more mines.

I mean, that's apparently how the self-replication happens: the replicators get new raw ingredients chiefly out of energy that flies past them, be it from weapons fire or from the explosions of nearby fellow mines. A piece of wreckage may be a feast, but stray energy is probably the bread and butter.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Romulan_spy]

Certainly. But it was impossible to target even a single mine, as the mines were invisible.

Just firing blindly at a high density of fire would be bad for two reasons: you still wouldn't hit anything much, and you would be pumping out so much energy that the replicators in the mines could "feed" on that to create more mines.

I mean, that's apparently how the self-replication happens: the replicators get new raw ingredients chiefly out of energy that flies past them, be it from weapons fire or from the explosions of nearby fellow mines. A piece of wreckage may be a feast, but stray energy is probably the bread and butter.

Timo Saloniemi

After I posted the thread I realized about the mines being cloaked. But wouldn't the Dominion have the tech to detect cloaked mines?

 

[Timo]

They are credited with point-blank means of defeating the Romulan cloak on the Defiant, using antiproton probing beams. Not infallible means, though, but usually effective as long as the prey doesn't actively try to slip away. But the Romulans probably sold Starfleet the crappiest possible cloak, and Sisko might have used better cloaks on the mines, perhaps ones designed by Starfleet's Klingon allies. We know Klingons are master cloakers - they have infiltrated Romulan space on occasion, even deploying agents to the Romulan homeworld ("Unification")!

The Dominion is later credited with a sensor array that can detect cloaked ships "over five sectors", too. Supposedly, that's a completely different technology, and supposedly, our heroes specifically worry that it works against the cloaks of their Klingon allies. Plus, the Dominion has cloaked mines of its own, sort of: it knows how to dip mines in subspace, as in "Siege of AR-558".

However, O'Brien argues that while the Dominion can detect cloaked ships, the small size of the mines would make all the difference in the efficacy of cloaking. Apparently, he's right...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Romulan_spy]

However, O'Brien argues that while the Dominion can detect cloaked ships, the small size of the mines would make all the difference in the efficacy of cloaking. Apparently, he's right...

Timo Saloniemi

True that the small size of the mines would also help a lot. Defeating the cloak of a large object like a starship would obviously be easier than defeating the cloak on an object that is already very small.

 

[Timo]

...Especially if your countermeasure is based on pointing an antiproton beam at the cloak. A glancing hit on the corner of a starship cloak is easier to achieve than a hit on a mine just one meter across, when you are aiming blindly.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Romulan_spy]

...Especially if your countermeasure is based on pointing an antiproton beam at the cloak. A glancing hit on the corner of a starship cloak is easier to achieve than a hit on a mine just one meter across, when you are aiming blindly.

Timo Saloniemi

I wonder if it would be possible to emit a very wide anti-proton beam instead of a narrow beam. A wide beam could encompass a larger area and possibly detect more mines at once.

 

[pimp]

I also want to add that when we see them putting the minefield up it is in a straight line. Which to me makes no sense as they can just simply fly over it. Or as soon as they come out of wormhole they can stop and fly into a different direction from the wall of mines. In order to fully mine the WH they should have mined a big spherical pattern around the WH to encompass it.


Oh and sorry this is kinda the same stuff I said in a similar thread ages ago, which we discussed in detail.

 

[Timo]

But the wormhole appears to be highly directional: you can only enter and exit from one direction. If the minefield is a two-dimensional sheet covering that direction, it blocks the wormhole all right.

Actually, it looks like at least two 2D sheets in parallel here:

http://ds9.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/5x26/calltoarms_224.jpg

And here, just before completion:

http://ds9.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/5x26/calltoarms_708.jpg

Also, no doubt the mines are capable of some maneuvering to cover any holes created in the field.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[T'Girl]

But the opening to the wormhole isn't three dimentional, it's two. If the mine field "wall' were right at the opening to the wormhole tunnel, there would be no going around it.

I don't think you can approach the wormhole from behind and still enter it.

 

[Sindatur]

But the opening to the wormhole isn't three dimentional, it's two. If the mine field "wall' were right at the opening to the wormhole tunnel, there would be no going around it.

I don't think you can approach the wormhole from behind and still enter it.

Yea, that Wormhole didn't roll like that, no entry from behind

 

[BennyRussel]

But the opening to the wormhole isn't three dimentional, it's two. If the mine field "wall' were right at the opening to the wormhole tunnel, there would be no going around it.

I don't think you can approach the wormhole from behind and still enter it.

Yea, that Wormhole didn't roll like that, no entry from behind

Actually, according to Memory Alpha it took exactly three glasses of blood wine to make that possible.

 

[Sindatur]

But the opening to the wormhole isn't three dimentional, it's two. If the mine field "wall' were right at the opening to the wormhole tunnel, there would be no going around it.

I don't think you can approach the wormhole from behind and still enter it.

Yea, that Wormhole didn't roll like that, no entry from behind

Actually, according to Memory Alpha it took exactly three glasses of blood wine to make that possible.

What happens under the influence of Blood Wine stays under the influence of Blood Wine

 

[MacLeod]

So long as it's a 2309 Bloodwine.

 

[pimp]

I thought wormholes don't have dimensions ? or am I thinking of Blackholes (ain't they the same thing??) . As I always understood the only way to explain how they work is to use a 2D illustration and they don't have any dimensions to them. Any ways I maybe wrong about this.

 

[Timo]

Well, the one in DS9 had at least the following characteristics:

- The mouth opened in just one direction, generally towards the spacecraft that had triggered the opening.

- The size of this round 2D hole in space seemed to depend on the size of the thing intending to squeeze through: there seemed to be about equally much clearance for a single runabout or a fleet of warbirds.

- Inside, the wormhole was a tunnel of finite length, along which spacecraft apparently traveled using their impulse engines, thrusters or sheer momentum; use of warp engines sent ships spinning into alternate realities.

- There were occasional pseudo-physical objects inside that the spacecraft bump into or travel through; so-called verteron nodes can destabilize sensitive containment fields, but a skilled pilot can weave past them, although routine operations don't call for any dodging and no object within the wormhole is known to pose an actual collision hazard to spacecraft.

Timo Saloniemi