Why is batman always black in the films?

[Romulus Prime]

This concept of PC that you and Admiral2 have in your heads does not exist anywhere in reality. It's a right wing fiction designed to make white people, specifically white Christian men, feel like they're under attack, like they're a persecuted minority.

There is no threat of a PC movement. None. It's a non-issue. It's a make believe bogeyman.

No, it isn't.

Reprimanding and/or ostracizing people based on what they say or how they should say things, and/or view the world IS REAL, and it's not something only "white Christians" see. My mother, who's Mexican and was a Democrat years ago, has certainly seen how people have changed (or tried to change) how others can or cannot speak and act towards others. Much of it seems to come from people who claim tolerance and demand it from others, yet are quite unwilling to do the same in regards to people disagreeing with their stance.

The fact that I bring up the problem of rampant racism and sexism in Hollywood and you reply with a laughing face is pretty much all we need to know about your views on race in films.

No, it isn't. You can actually confront these issues and joke about it, laugh at the opposition, the situation, etc. and still personally maintain a serious position AND not be racist or sexist.

Then again, if you don't think it seems like the proper way to behave or respond to this subject...








...






...yeeeeah...by all means, keep thinking "PC" is just a bogeyman.

 

[Captaindemotion]

Face it, daredevil is a white superhero, it just would not work if he was black. Spider-man is also a white superhero 9however his ultimate universe counterpart is black). The point is the whole thing would be painfully PC. Why can't people just get over this race thing and accept the majority of superheroes are going to be white because the US' majority is white. It does not mean all superheroes need to be white in films, but if they're white in the comics, why bother to make them black in the films? On the other hand, Kingpin's white in the comics, but was black in the film, and he was playedreally well.

Okay, can you tell me what part of Daredevi's character is so intrinsically white? What is there about his persona, his identity and his abilities mean that he could only be played by or drawn as a white man?

The DD movie was based on Frank Miller's work. Miller, and in some places the movie, made much of the fact that Matt's motivation and actions stemmed in part from being an Irish Catholic.

I think you could have made the character a Catholic without being an Irish Catholic (speaking as the classic lapsed Irish Catholic myself!). I think his Catholicism was more important to his character than his Irishness.

Banshee in X-Men has always been Irish but in the First Class movie, they dropped this aspect (Which made the fact that he has a name meaning 'Woman of the Fairies' in Irish even sillier!).

And trust me, go to any Catholic church in Ireland now and you're pretty much guaranteed to see at least a few black people!

 

[Green Lantern]

Look guys, can we just agree to disagree with this whole black superhero thing? Hight does not bother me so much as colour as it's more noticable. So if they made superman indian in the new film, made spider-man chinise in the new film, and made wolverine black in the upcomming film, you'd all like that? Personaly I would not, but if you do, it's up to you. Look I'm not being racist, infact I love alot of black people I know, they're funny and jolly people, but updating ironmans origin from being in Vietnam to making him a differnent race are two completely different things. I'd be a little angry if they made ironman ginger, or daredevil bald, so this is definately not a race thing.

 

[Captaindemotion]

^You'd hate the idea of a bald Daredevil? Best not read this story then!

http://www.comicbookmovie.com/daredevil/daredevil_2/news/?a=4918

 

[Green Lantern]

If it was in a comic, I'd be okish with it. Still. Never heard of Jason Statham anyway.

Then again, I'm so desperate for annother daredevil film, I might be willing to forgive him being bald. Maybe not.

 

[Mars]

It might be. Unlike Batman or most of the others ones mentioned here, Superman has no mask. His face needs to look a certain vague way to be recognizable on a gut level (at least to me). That doesn’t mean he couldn’t be mixed race (Dean Cain still looked like “Superman”) but there still needs to be enough visual cues that you look at him and say “yeah, that’s Superman.” Race is one hell of a big visual cue, right or wrong.

To you, maybe. As I've already explained, I don't see it the same way. There have been a number of cases where I've thought, "Hmm, that person looks a lot like that other person, except for the skin color." And I'm sure I'm not the only person on the planet who thinks that way.

But I’m enough of a realist to know that we haven’t classified people or denied them their civil rights on the basis of height. We haven’t had “height riots.” No one gets excited or worried about the height of our president. We didn't have laws against people of different heights marrying.

But that's the past. Why should it restrict our choices in the present or future?




Even so, again, characters in adaptations are not meant to be identical to the originals. They're interpretations, and interpretations can change a lot of things.





But why are you talking about that specific movie? That doesn't make sense, since that movie was already made. I'm talking about adaptations in general.




Which is exactly why we have the power to change those assumptions -- to stop being preoccupied with race as somehow important in delineating who gets to play what part.





Okay, so at best it's a misunderstanding. It's still got nothing to do with what I and people like me actually believe, and using the "PC" label just gets in the way of having a meaningful conversation.




Fair enough. I apologize for my poor choice of analogy.




Worked fine for Starbuck. As I said, these are interpretations, and change from the original is part of what interpretations are about. Of course, we already have a Supergirl, so it would be a bit redundant, just as making Hal Jordan black would be redundant when we have John Stewart. But if someone wanted to tell a story about hotshot test pilot Hallie Jordan getting a ring from Abin Sur, I'd be fine with that. (You could get a joke out of it about "Hey, I don't accept rings from strange men.")

Similarly, physical appearance (which is going to include race) is, at some point on the continuum, going to be a factor in casting simply because the “author” has a vision of who his character should or shouldn’t be. Should 70+ year old Jack Nicholson, with his wrinkes, receding hairline and budha belly, be Superman simply because he’s (presumably, given all his Oscars) a better actor than Henry Cavill? Should Meryl Streep play Wonder Woman? Probably not…but I bet she’d absolutely kill in the auditions.

Oh, come on, that's reductio ad absurdem. Gina Torres looks a hell of a lot more like Wonder Woman than, say, Kristin Chenoweth or Rosemary Harris does. Michael Dorn c. 1989 looked a lot more like Bruce Wayne than Michael Keaton did, or than present-day Michael Dorn does. It's ridiculous to say that just having a different skin color always makes two people look absolutely nothing alike. Two people of the same general age, height, bone structure, etc. but different ethnicities are going to look more alike than a burly 30-year-old and a skinny 70-year-old of the same ethnicity.

And if denying an actor a part because of some aspect of her appearance is improper discrimination, why isn’t it age discrimination to stop Streep from playing Wonder Woman? Why isn’t it sex discrimination to not cast her as Superman?

I don't think anyone's denying that physical appearance can be a factor in casting, to a point. What I'm denying is your blanket assumption that an ethnic difference by itself results in two people looking absolutely nothing alike. There are certainly limits on how far one can reasonably diverge, but those limits are not as restrictive as you assume.

I have to say simply is that if you cast a black actor as Superman, he won't look like Superman, much the same as if you cast a black actor to play George Washington, and asked why some of his slaves couldn't be played by white actors. Actors must look like the role they play, if not its harder to achieve suspension of disbelief. Bruce Wayne is a white rich guy, try and make him black, then its one of two things, either it is a replacement for Bruce Wayne, another character is taking up the cowl to play Batman, or its a reimagining of the character. Also what if Robin was played by a woman? It would be a different Robin now wouldn't it.

 

[JoeZhang]

I have to say simply is that if you cast a black actor as Superman, he won't look like Superman, much the same as if you cast a black actor to play George Washington, and asked why some of his slaves couldn't be played by white actors. Actors must look like the role they play, if not its harder to achieve suspension of disbelief. Bruce Wayne is a white rich guy, try and make him black, then its one of two things, either it is a replacement for Bruce Wayne, another character is taking up the cowl to play Batman, or its a reimagining of the character. Also what if Robin was played by a woman? It would be a different Robin now wouldn't it.

Why does this keep coming up? George Washington is a real person - has anyone here suggested that this type of casting should be applied to historical real figures or that Winston Churchill should a sassy black woman in a wheelchair?

If you can find anyone here arguing for that point it out, otherwise it's a strawman to bring up again and again.

 

[Christopher]

Generally ethnicity or color doesn't matter, except in terms of how much a character is a favorite for me. For Wonder Woman, Gina Torres is a fine actor, but doesn't look close enough in terms of color only because I want any actress to look as much like Wonder Woman of the comics which Lynda Carter did.

Well, Wonder Woman has looked a lot of different ways in the comics. Carter bore a reasonable resemblance to how Diana looked in the '40s or the '60s, but the modern rendering of Wonder Woman is far more statuesque and, well, Amazonian. Carter's look and build just wouldn't fit the modern version of the character. Not to mention the personality -- Carter's gentle, girlish persona worked for a Wonder Woman of the '70s, but a modern Diana needs to project great power and authority and the toughness of a warrior as well as deep warmth and compassion.

I mean, really, it should be axiomatic that an actor's apperance isn't as important as their talent and personality, their ability to convey what the character needs to be. If it's a choice between someone who looks just like the character but can't act, or is totally wrong for their personality, or someone who looks significantly different but just nails the essence of who the character is as a person, then you pick the latter. I didn't just like Torres as Wonder Woman because of her height and physique, but because of her great talent and charisma as an actress and her ability to capture everything that defines Diana's personality. I've seen her portray deep warmth and kindness as Jasmine on Angel and great power and warrior presence as Zoe on Firefly and other roles. She fits well enough in personality that the fact that she only loosely resembles the character physically is of secondary importance. Fixating exclusively on appearance is fine if you're casting a model for a photo shoot, or a booth babe for a convention. If you're casting an actor to deliver lines and convey a character and make an audience care, then it should be obvious that there are more important considerations than what the actor looks like.

Banshee in X-Men has always been Irish but in the First Class movie, they dropped this aspect (Which made the fact that he has a name meaning 'Woman of the Fairies' in Irish even sillier!).

Also Colossus wasn't Russian, Storm lost any trace of an African accent after the first movie, Xavier was British (and so was Magneto in accent if not backstory), Havok is no longer Cyclops's younger brother, etc.

So if they made superman indian in the new film, made spider-man chinise in the new film, and made wolverine black in the upcomming film, you'd all like that?

You're still not getting it. What I would like is that they choose the best actor for each role. Looks are secondary to talent. As long as you insist on defining people as "black people" and "white people" and "Asian people," instead of simply as people, you will never understand where I and others like me are coming from. To quote David Gerrold, these words describe people -- they do not define them.

 

[Green Lantern]

Whatever. As I said, I'm not being racist, infact I have a thing for Japanise women, but Having a black superman for example would just plain not work. Half cast at the most, that could work.

I made this thread to disscuss why batman always wears black in films, not why are there hardly any black superhero films (BTW, Spawn and Blade).

 

[Pingfah]

Half-cast Superman is OK, but Black Superman is not? That makes no sense at all

 

[BillJ]

Whatever. As I said, I'm not being racist, infact I have a thing for Japanise women, but Having a black superman for example would just plain not work. Half cast at the most, that could work.

Why wouldn't a black Superman work? This confuses the hell out of me. Was Krypton a "whites only" planet? Does a black man not have the necessary skills to be a newspaper reporter? Were there no black people in Smallville who could've adopted a black Kal-El?

 

[Greg Cox]

Granted, when you're dealing with visually iconic characters like Superman or Wonder Woman, any drastic change in their appearance is going to be jarring at first. But audiences can be faster to adjust than we often give them credit for.

When VOYAGER first came out, there were people who found the idea of a black Vulcan jarring and inconsistent or whatever, but people got used to Tuvok pretty quickly. Nowadays it's hard to understand why it was even an issue.

As for a bald Daredevil, I can see the title now:

DAREDEVIL: MAN WITHOUT HAIR.

 

[sidious618]

No, it isn't.

Yes, it is.

Reprimanding and/or ostracizing people based on what they say or how they should say things, and/or view the world IS REAL, and it's not something only "white Christians" see. My mother, who's Mexican and was a Democrat years ago, has certainly seen how people have changed (or tried to change) how others can or cannot speak and act towards others. Much of it seems to come from people who claim tolerance and demand it from others, yet are quite unwilling to do the same in regards to people disagreeing with their stance.

I'm not sure what your point here is other than your mom thinks some people are mean.

No, it isn't. You can actually confront these issues and joke about it, laugh at the opposition, the situation, etc. and still personally maintain a serious position AND not be racist or sexist.

Then again, if you don't think it seems like the proper way to behave or respond to this subject...

Oh, bullshit once again. I didn't tell him how he had to behave but how his behavior was coming across. That has nothing to do with this PC nonsense and you know it. It fucking amazes me how terrified people are of this invisible PC movement that is stalking the land. I still see plenty of people using racist and sexist language so it doesn't seem to be doing much but by all means act like it's out to get you.

 

[Captaindemotion]

I made this thread to disscuss why batman always wears black in films, not why are there hardly any black superhero films (BTW, Spawn and Blade).

Should have titled it better then, shouldn't you?

 

[tighr]

Because if you are, that seems...sorry...pretty much a classic "PC" position.

You just snapped at Tighr on the other page for saying some people might be racially insensitive ....

Not at all what I wrote about Tighr. Unless you think "race" is spelled "h-e-i-g-h-t."

Actually, to be perfectly fair, you snapped at me for insinuating that being tall is the same as being white: they often don't understand why non-tall people (or non-white people) think height (or race) is a big deal.

 

[Green Lantern]

Whatever. As I said, I'm not being racist, infact I have a thing for Japanise women, but Having a black superman for example would just plain not work. Half cast at the most, that could work.

Why wouldn't a black Superman work? This confuses the hell out of me. Was Krypton a "whites only" planet? Does a black man not have the necessary skills to be a newspaper reporter? Were there no black people in Smallville who could've adopted a black Kal-El?

Because he's an iconic character dude, a large visual change would just not work. The new 52 was bad ennougth, and they just added a V neck collar, a red belt, no trunks, and weird sleeve things. Just imagine what a full colour change would do, let alone just making him blonde for example.

Granted, when you're dealing with visually iconic characters like Superman or Wonder Woman, any drastic change in their appearance is going to be jarring at first. But audiences can be faster to adjust than we often give them credit for.

When VOYAGER first came out, there were people who found the idea of a black Vulcan jarring and inconsistent or whatever, but people got used to Tuvok pretty quickly. Nowadays it's hard to understand why it was even an issue.

As for a bald Daredevil, I can see the title now:

DAREDEVIL: MAN WITHOUT HAIR.

Thank you.

And for the Vulcan thing, I'd actully be up for a black Vulcan, but the character was just so badly done. Boring.

 

[iguana_tonante]

The horror of a V-neck!

 

[Mars]

Half-cast Superman is OK, but Black Superman is not? That makes no sense at all

He could be somebody else from Krypton who happens to be black, though it is hard to get a suntan under a red sun, not much UV rays.

 

[Mars]

Whatever. As I said, I'm not being racist, infact I have a thing for Japanise women, but Having a black superman for example would just plain not work. Half cast at the most, that could work.

Why wouldn't a black Superman work? This confuses the hell out of me. Was Krypton a "whites only" planet? Does a black man not have the necessary skills to be a newspaper reporter? Were there no black people in Smallville who could've adopted a black Kal-El?

Because he's an iconic character dude, a large visual change would just not work. The new 52 was bad ennougth, and they just added a V neck collar, a red belt, no trunks, and weird sleeve things. Just imagine what a full colour change would do, let alone just making him blonde for example.

Granted, when you're dealing with visually iconic characters like Superman or Wonder Woman, any drastic change in their appearance is going to be jarring at first. But audiences can be faster to adjust than we often give them credit for.

When VOYAGER first came out, there were people who found the idea of a black Vulcan jarring and inconsistent or whatever, but people got used to Tuvok pretty quickly. Nowadays it's hard to understand why it was even an issue.

As for a bald Daredevil, I can see the title now:

DAREDEVIL: MAN WITHOUT HAIR.

Thank you.

And for the Vulcan thing, I'd actully be up for a black Vulcan, but the character was just so badly done. Boring.

Isn't there already a superhero named "Black Vulcan"?

 

[Mars]

I have to say simply is that if you cast a black actor as Superman, he won't look like Superman, much the same as if you cast a black actor to play George Washington, and asked why some of his slaves couldn't be played by white actors. Actors must look like the role they play, if not its harder to achieve suspension of disbelief. Bruce Wayne is a white rich guy, try and make him black, then its one of two things, either it is a replacement for Bruce Wayne, another character is taking up the cowl to play Batman, or its a reimagining of the character. Also what if Robin was played by a woman? It would be a different Robin now wouldn't it.

Why does this keep coming up? George Washington is a real person - has anyone here suggested that this type of casting should be applied to historical real figures or that Winston Churchill should a sassy black woman in a wheelchair?

If you can find anyone here arguing for that point it out, otherwise it's a strawman to bring up again and again.

Superman is a historical fictional character, if you go back to the earliest Superman comic book, you see that he looks pretty much back then what he looks like today. I believe DC did publish an elseworlds black superman, and it seems to me that it wouldn't make much difference if his skin was black, but the established character is a white person with black hair and blue eyes standing over 6 feet tall, you never see a blonde superman, or a bald superman, of you want a black man that is like Superman, you could have another refugee from Krypton if you like, but it wouldn't be superman, it would be some other kryptonian with the same powers, and who's say he couldn't wear a cape and save the World a few times, but he's not Superman, because in the comic book he wouldn't look like Superman. How about this A black young santa clause, that wears a red suit and rides around in a sleigh pulled by 8 flying reindeer, would anyone buy that? I think not.