ENTER! TV & Media Avatar Contest: Favorite Soap Character

[Ar-Pharazon]

Another character from a soap already represented is OK.

Bobby Ewing for example, or Luke Spencer (the other one I was thinking about). It's favorite character after all.

 

[Gov Kodos]

I'm guessing no Dark Shadows, so let's try

Another character from a soap already represented is OK.

Bobby Ewing for example, or Luke Spencer (the other one I was thinking about). It's favorite character after all.

Oops, single character, didn't read very closely, there.

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

^ Doesn't have to be one character, but it's also not limited to one show either.

Whichever you like best. I was replying to auntiehill's last post.

 

[Worf2DS9]

Mason Capwell from Santa Barbara, the only daytime soap I ever watched.

 

[Gov Kodos]

^ Doesn't have to be one character, but it's also not limited to one show either.

Whichever you like best. I was replying to auntiehill's last post.

Oh, thanks. I'll stick with Joan. I loved her in Dynasty. It took a couple of episodes of wondering why I knew her, then I realized it was meek little Edith Keeler.

 

[the G-man]

The Fisher Bros. (Six Feet Under),
or ...

The Politician and the T-Girl (Dirty Sexy Money)?

Six Feet Under, definitely.

...except 6FU wasn't really a soap opera, at least no more than any other drama with recurring or long running storylines. You might as well call Hill St Blues, LA Law, the Sopranos and the Wire soap operas.

 

[Kai "the spy"]

You might as well call Hill St Blues, LA Law, the Sopranos and the Wire soap operas.

Well, you might, but actually there's a bit of a difference, as those examples are attributed to other subgenres of drama, like police procedural, gangster drama or legal drama. 6FU on the other hand revolved around the lives of a certain family and took its drama from that, not the investigation of a crime, the workings of a (Mafia) empire or possible interpretations of law.

And what is the difference between a drama series and a soap opera, anyway? Quality? I think not.
To quote Wikipedia:

A soap opera, sometimes called "soap" for short, is an ongoing, episodic work of dramatic fiction presented in serial format on radio or as television programming.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soap_opera

And 6FU was just that, an episodic work of dramatic fiction presented in serial format on TV.
Or is it you disqualify it, because it was on HBO and therefore does not comply with that last condition? If so, don't take HBO's marketing that serious.
Or maybe you don't see the "open-ended nature of the narrative", which actually was there except for the last few episodes (basically, the only thing making it not open-ended are the last few minutes of the final episode).

But maybe I'm missing something. In that case, please, explain to me how "Dallas" is a soap opera and "Six Feet Under" isn't.

 

[the G-man]

I acknowledge that wikipedia defines a soap opera in that manner. However, i would submit that to do so defines the genre so broadly as to be a definition without meaning, at least in the modern age of television (where dramas are no longer required to reset to the status quo at the end of every hour).

Off the top of my head, that definition means the following television shows, all of which were ongoing, episodic and somewhat serialized (insofar as they had recurring plots that carried over from week to week until concluded), were/are all soap operas:

• Hill St. Blues
  L.A. Law
  ER
  Lost
  the Sopranos
  Deadwood
  the Shield
  Justified
  the Wire
  NYPD Blue
  House
  Alias
  24
  the West Wing
  Breaking Bad
  Fringe
  Buffy
  Dexter

And that's just drama shows, the same definition, if applied to comedy would mean the following are also soap operas:

• 
  Seinfeld
  Friends
  Curb your Enthusiasm
  the Venture Brothers
  the Office (US and UK versions)
  30 Rock
  HIMYM

Furthermore, you can't really use the "other subgenre" distinction because there have, in fact, been soap operas that were steeped in, for example, medicine, police drama and the supernatural (Dark Shadows being the obvious example).

If I could be so bold, I would suggest that the difference is that a soap opera is not intended to have an ending (at least until the show is cancelled out from under the producers), whereas a serialized drama/comedy is intended to have an arc with a more planned beginning, middle and end.

 

[Kai "the spy"]

I acknowledge that wikipedia defines a soap opera in that manner. However, i would submit that to do so defines the genre so broadly as to be a definition without meaning, at least in the modern age of television (where dramas are no longer required to reset to the status quo at the end of every hour).

Off the top of my head, that definition means the following television shows, all of which were ongoing, episodic and somewhat serialized (insofar as they had recurring plots that carried over from week to week until concluded), were/are all soap operas:

• Hill St. Blues
  L.A. Law
  ER
  Lost
  the Sopranos
  Deadwood
  the Shield
  Justified
  the Wire
  NYPD Blue
  House
  Alias
  24
  the West Wing
  Breaking Bad
  Fringe
  Buffy
  Dexter

And that's just drama shows, the same definition, if applied to comedy would mean the following are also soap operas:

• Seinfeld
  Friends
  Curb your Enthusiasm
  the Venture Brothers
  the Office (US and UK versions)
  30 Rock
  HIMYM

Furthermore, you can't really use the "other subgenre" distinction because there have, in fact, been soap operas that were steeped in, for example, medicine, police drama and the supernatural (Dark Shadows being the obvious example).

Fair enough.

If I could be so bold, I would suggest that the difference is that a soap opera is not intended to have an ending (at least until the show is cancelled out from under the producers), whereas a serialized drama/comedy is intended to have an arc with a more planned beginning, middle and end.

But by that definition, most of David E. Kelley's or Joss Whedon's shows would have been soap operas. Sure, there were planned arcs, but as for planned endings of the shows, I'm less sure about that (that's more Straczynski's thing, though his shows after B5 got canned prematurely to his plans). Wether it's "The Practice", "Boston Legal", "Harry's Law", "Boston Public", "Angel", "Firefly" or "Dollhouse", those were all canceled by the tv stations, and it's only because the creators were informed early enough that they could write a somewhat fitting ending to most of those (with "Firefly", we didn't even get that).

Similarly, when "Six Feet Under" was started, they had no ending in mind. The reason why they canceled it was they were running out of new ideas, and they wanted to leave the show on a high note.

But in the end, this would be a discussion of it's own, so for this contest's sake, I'd suggest we leave it to Ar-Pharazon wether he wants to allow "Six Feet Under" or not. Either way, I'd be fine using my other entry, too.

 

[the G-man]

But by that definition, most of David E. Kelley's or Joss Whedon's shows would have been soap operas. Sure, there were planned arcs, but as for planned endings of the shows, I'm less sure about that (that's more Straczynski's thing, though his shows after B5 got canned prematurely to his plans). Wether it's "The Practice", "Boston Legal", "Harry's Law", "Boston Public", "Angel", "Firefly" or "Dollhouse", those were all canceled by the tv stations, and it's only because the creators were informed early enough that they could write a somewhat fitting ending to most of those (with "Firefly", we didn't even get that).

Good point. Perhaps the definition of "soap opera" is like a Supreme Court Justice said of pornography: "I know it when I see it."

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

^ And how much porn has a Supreme Court Justice seen anyway?

Wikipedia (and other sources) do identify 6FU as a "drama series", whereas they list Dallas as a "soap". Maybe Kai can think of another entry?


I'll give this another day or two. Kind of a limited scope, as most men won't admit to watching soaps.

But hey, we're all anonymous here, go for it.

 

[Kai "the spy"]

Maybe Kai can think of another entry?

I did. Check out my original post.

 

[Gov Kodos]

^ And how much porn has a Supreme Court Justice seen anyway?

Wikipedia (and other sources) do identify 6FU as a "drama series", whereas they list Dallas as a "soap". Maybe Kai can think of another entry?


I'll give this another day or two. Kind of a limited scope, as most men won't admit to watching soaps.

But hey, we're all anonymous here, go for it.

Much of the confusion would seem to be (in the US at least) that soaps, serialized dramas, were pretty much just a day time TV format prior to the 70's. Primetime, evening TV, didn't make very much use of continuous story lines between episodes. Most stories were complete in one viewing and not referred to again. The success of shows like Soap, Dallas, and Dynasty led to greater use of serialization and character arcs in the story telling so that there is now not as much difference between the styles of daytime soaps and primetime TV as there once was.

 

[od0_ital]

Pretty sure Nip/Tuck would count as a soap, right....?

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

^ Only in the broader sense that drama series' are soaps.

 

[od0_ital]

^

Continuin' storylines, false paternity, mix & match sexual partners, focus on one family dynamic with other characters that orbit around the core, and over the top silly drama. How is it not a soap?

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

Has anyone come back from the dead? That's usually the cincher.

 

[auntiehill]

^Or an evil twin.

 

[od0_ital]

^

YES!

Readin' over episode summaries for the series, from 'Benny Nilsson' (season six), "Sean is surprised by the sudden re-appearance of his long-lost brother Brendan (guest star Neil Hopkins), a drug addict and con artist who was believed to be dead."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nip/Tuck_(season_6)

 

[the G-man]

^

Continuin' storylines, false paternity, mix & match sexual partners, focus on one family dynamic with other characters that orbit around the core, and over the top silly drama. How is it not a soap?

Yeah. Unlike, for example, 6FU which was intended to deal with life and death in a somewhat "serious" manner, N/T was just about sex, money and over the top drama.