What differences are there between Mangels/Martin and Martin solo?

[Defcon]

Yeah, it's definitely the character development. Mangels said that the worldbuilding and politics weren't his strengths, and that's all that Martin does without him - he makes worlds that could be interesting, and he keeps track of all the logistics. But Mangels would do all the character development, all the scenes that made each book feel human.

Just for accuracy's sake: Here's what Mangels actually said the last time he commented on their collaboration here.

Re: him pitching novels:
Don't know if he has actively pitched prose since the Mangels/Martin days, but I seem to remember an interview a year or two ago where he said he would be interested to write more if the right projects came about.

He has actively pitched a Titan comic (mini-?)series together with Tim Russ a few years ago , but IDW wasn't interested.

 

[Thrawn]

Yeah, it's definitely the character development. Mangels said that the worldbuilding and politics weren't his strengths, and that's all that Martin does without him - he makes worlds that could be interesting, and he keeps track of all the logistics. But Mangels would do all the character development, all the scenes that made each book feel human.

Just for accuracy's sake: Here's what Mangels actually said the last time he commented on their collaboration here.

Re: him pitching novels:
Don't know if he has actively pitched prose since the Mangels/Martin days, but I seem to remember an interview a year or two ago where he said he would be interested to write more if the right projects came about.

He has actively pitched a Titan comic (mini-?)series together with Tim Russ a few years ago , but IDW wasn't interested.

Thanks for quoting that; I had oversimplified that a bit in my memory.

 

[Defcon]

^ You're welcome.

 

[starri]

If I understand Starri correctly, he means it's frustrating that the best piece of character development a character from Titan saw, was not in an actual Titan novel.

That's exactly what I meant. Sorry if I wasn't clearer.

Compared to what we see of Melora in Fallen Gods, it's almost like that never happened.

EDITED:

I thought of another example, probably one that's even more powerful than the one I already mentioned.

I was thinking of the scene in Gods of Night where Deanna is seeing Counselor Haaj about her feelings about her then-pending miscarriage, and he draws out out her that she's not angry at herself, she's angry at the baby.

Destiny is bar-none (well, bar-most, maybe) my favorite book/series, and it just bothers me that we can't get such strong character work in the actual TTN books.

 

[MatthiasRussell]

I feel that Martin's solo books aren't as focused. He seems to go off on tangents about something and then has to pull himself back to the plot or scene at hand. They are far less structured and planned out. Granted, all of his works are a little "wordy" but his solo works are worse about having erroneous parts that do nothing to build upon the plot or characters. It is kind of like he says more, but does less.

 

[tomswift2002]

I've found that Fallen Gods is Martin's worst solo Trek to date. I only rated it 2 stars out of 5.

I also found that FG was his worst solo Trek, of course Seize The Fire would come in a close second since I barely remembered anything about it when I was reading FG. I gave it a rating of 2.5 out of 10, or poor. When "Brahm-Shiva" was mentioned I had to look on Memory Beta to see what exactly Martin was referring too, and then look in the book, but even after that it barely continued to register. With Mangels I would say that their worst novel was "Last Full Measure", which is even worse than FG.

But I've found with Martin that in his solo outings a lot of his books feel like they could go through a couple of more rounds of polish (although FG could've been postponed for another year, since it really needs more polish than it currently has), whereas compared to his outings with Mangels I feel that Mangels, besides doing the characterizations, he also managed to get the segues from the different scenes to be not so much as a jump off a cliff, than a walk down a ramp.

 

[Therin of Andor]

I would say that their worst novel was "Last Full Measure", which is even worse than FG.

Sometimes I think I live in a parallel universe. I saw nothing "worse" about "Last Full Measure".

 

[tomswift2002]

I would say that their worst novel was "Last Full Measure", which is even worse than FG.

Sometimes I think I live in a parallel universe. I saw nothing "worse" about "Last Full Measure".

It is worse when you can't even finish the book. With FG I was able to finish the book at least. LFM is still sitting on my shelf, unfinished, and there's no plot or anything in it that wants me to pick it back up and read it.

 

[Relayer1]

I'm about 1/3 of the way through Fallen Gods at the moment, and given that I don't particularly like the Titan series (and disliked Seize The Fire) I'd certainly rate it easily on a par to most of them, such as Synthesis.

Of course, it could all go pear shaped in the remainder of the novel, but so far I must say I've certainly read worse Titan novels...

 

[Therin of Andor]

It is worse when you can't even finish the book. With FG I was able to finish the book at least. LFM is still sitting on my shelf, unfinished, and there's no plot or anything in it that wants me to pick it back up and read it.

Happy to swap you "The Laertian Gamble", "Rebels" trilogy, "Dark Matters" trilogy or "Into the Nebula".

 

[BillJ]

I would say that their worst novel was "Last Full Measure", which is even worse than FG.

Sometimes I think I live in a parallel universe. I saw nothing "worse" about "Last Full Measure".

It is worse when you can't even finish the book. With FG I was able to finish the book at least. LFM is still sitting on my shelf, unfinished, and there's no plot or anything in it that wants me to pick it back up and read it.

I liked Last Full Measure. Not spectacular but not the dung heap The Romulan War books were.

 

[tomswift2002]

Happy to swap you "The Laertian Gamble", "Rebels" trilogy, "Dark Matters" trilogy or "Into the Nebula".

'The Laertian Gamble' I was able to finish, all though it's got to be he wrist DS9 I've read to date, but it's not as bad as LFM

'Rebels', I've only found th middle book so far and I'm waiting till I can find at least book 1 before reading it.

'Dark Matters' I read back in high school and I thought that it was really well done. One of the few Trek trilogies were I actually read the books one right after the other.

'Into The Nebula' I've got on my shelf, but just like a couple hundred other Trek books I haven't had a chance to read it yet.

The Romulan War books are at least readable. Last Full Measure is not.