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What weakened Trek, and what can restore it?

I tend to think that Trek just kind of peaked with mainstream audiences with TNG and the subsequent shows either got lost in the shuffle (DS9), or just didn't excite anyone outside of Trekkies (VOY and ENT). TNG kind of came along at the right time when there weren't very many sci-fi/fantasy shows on the air and left just before there was too much competition. By the time ENT came along, Trek was fairly old hat and somewhat played out, with the only remotely buzzworthy thing being Jeri Ryan in a skintight catsuit and padded bra back when VOY was on.

I do think Star Trek XI benefited from being the only new Trek production in four years and being able to resonate with more than just hardcore Trekkies with its familiar characters and a renewed sense of energy and fun (heck, it even brought back miniskirts and bug-eyed monsters). Trek is once more an event that comes along every few years rather than something you can see every week.

I think any new Trek that comes after the Abramsverse has to be as different from the TNG era in style and tone as it was to the TOS era (regardless of its in-universe setting or premise). I also think it has to have characters that people other than Trekkies can relate & root for and stories that periodically stand out and are memorable. I think the worst thing that Trek can do is to become any darker and grittier than DS9 was, but at the same time, it can still be edgy and take some risks with its content and characters to reflect the current times we live in. At the very least, it needs to remove the idea of having a static cast of characters and an unchanging status quo--many of the best dramas have characters that come and go (including the lead character), which often provides a periodic shakeup and sometimes a change in creative direction that keeps things lively.
 
So to get Star Trek back on TV, everyone go to see the next movie ten times and tell everyone they know to do likewise. Even if you object to whoever Cumberbund ends up playing. Now is not the time to be fussy! To the barricades!!! :D

I am so seeing this multiple times, especially because of Cumby! It also puts my mind at rest about the KHAAAAAAN thing, as there is absolutely no way in hell that a pale Englishman like him is going to play someone from India without that looking totally ridiculous.

I don't care who he plays, it'll be, as the Americans are so fond of saying, awesome (an otherwise underused word imo).

Success at the box office will go a long way toward bringing ST back to the telly. :)
 
What weakened Star Trek was that it ceased to innovate and started to replicate.

That's why they replicated TOS again? :devil:

Funny, but not what I meant. I was thinking of things like Story Structure: The Attack of the A and B Plots.

At some point every episode felt like paint-by-numbers.

Yeah. But when it comes to TV episodes, that's the basic structure for every show I know. There's always two parallel plots per episode.
 
This bifurcated story structure did become a crutch for Trek, and it did make each episode feel more similar to one another. Yes, the writers needed structure to be able to produce the volume of episodes required, but they didn't hide it well and it grew repetitive.
 
That's why they replicated TOS again? :devil:

Funny, but not what I meant. I was thinking of things like Story Structure: The Attack of the A and B Plots.

At some point every episode felt like paint-by-numbers.

Yeah. But when it comes to TV episodes, that's the basic structure for every show I know. There's always two parallel plots per episode.

Thats the basic episodic sturcture on broadcast TV, sure. But Star Trek can't survive on broadcast and cable dramas are generally serialized, unless theyre cop shows, which of course doesnt apply to Star Trek. That structure no longer applies so thers no point worrying that it might be back to mess things up again.

many of the best dramas have characters that come and go (including the lead character)

Which ones? I watch a lot of terrific series and they all have the main character in every episode, and generally have all or most of the main cast too.
 
This bifurcated story structure did become a crutch for Trek, and it did make each episode feel more similar to one another. Yes, the writers needed structure to be able to produce the volume of episodes required, but they didn't hide it well and it grew repetitive.

Yep, there is a big difference between using writing tools that work, and ending up with a show that feels like it had been created with an online "random story generator" template. Ideally, plots either need to be a lot more focused, or be a lot more willing to mix things up and give viewers a more innovative product.
 
This bifurcated story structure did become a crutch for Trek, and it did make each episode feel more similar to one another. Yes, the writers needed structure to be able to produce the volume of episodes required, but they didn't hide it well and it grew repetitive.

Yep, there is a big difference between using writing tools that work, and ending up with a show that feels like it had been created with an online "random story generator" template. Ideally, plots either need to be a lot more focused, or be a lot more willing to mix things up and give viewers a more innovative product.

It did grow repetitive, and it did feel like a "random story generator" was used.
 
many of the best dramas have characters that come and go (including the lead character)

Which ones? I watch a lot of terrific series and they all have the main character in every episode, and generally have all or most of the main cast too.
CSI, NYPD Blue, and E.R. are among a handful of shows that have had main characters come and go. While the changes are frequently the result of cast changes, the shows generally incorporate new characters rather than recast the roles.
 
There's only three ways I want to see Trek come back. 1) To NBC someday probably not in my lifetime but that would be ideal as you can't ignore NBC. 2) AMC as an artistic creation a la The search for David Bowman/William Decker and liberating him from the Borg. And 3) as a paid per view/direct to dvd webseries sanctioned by CBS or a kickstarter. Else on the CW or as an animated series for the kiddies as it is now. Anything is better than Berman's eighteen year slow burn though.
 
I never watch cop shows, they bore me to death. But I dont see how Star Trek can use elements from cop shows, such as the procedural format, to avoid the need to focus on charatcers as the main draw.

A procedural needs to have a stronger real world connection so that it has credibility. Outer space crimes would be too arbitrary for the procedural fans and too limiting for the space opera fans. There are some cop show/sci fi hybrids on TV but theyre all based in the modern day real world - Haven, Grimm, etc. And I wouldnt call them procedurals per se.

The bigger issue is that procedurals live on broadcast, where you need maybe 10-12m to survive. Star Trek isnt going to get an audience that size, so it needs to live on cable and compete with cable dramas - Justified, Game of Thrones, Sons of Anarchy, The Walking Dead are more its competitive group.

Some are sf/f, some are not, so it could fit in. It needs to fit in somewhere, so that people understand, I like X show, and Star Trek is like X show, so I will like Star Trek. Being based in outer space shouldnt be a problem anymore than it was a problem for GoT to be based in some medieval fantasy world. Star Trek is actually more realistic than that, being our own future presumably.
 
I think essentially Paramount's issues re Trek are self-imposed.

After seven hundred-plus hours of it no one but hard cord trekkies cared any more - and there aren't enough of them to keep a show on the air.

People were bored by Star Trek, pure and simple.

Perhaps. But I think some serious errors were made in the production of both Voyager and Enterprise.

Voyager had very lop-sided character-development, and re-hashed enemies. It's often said Voyager killed the Borg, well to some extent it is true. The Borg's premise was that they were a near invincible super-race, but Janeway and co. outsmarted them in nearly every encounter.

Whilst ratings in post-TNG Trek have been poor, reception/critical acclaim is to some extent as important as ratings (though not primary, as ratings are primary for obvious reasons). Of modern Trek, TNG and DS9 were acclaimed, yet Voyager and Enterprise were not. IMO, this is a major reason why Trek was/is failing.
 
Two things and one is a by-product of the other.

Over saturation and changing the concept. People fell in love with the show as one-hour self contained sci-fi with characters we liked and understood.

It was simple and straight forward. People say shows like that can't survive now, yet both TOS and TNG continue to thrive in reruns. So much so that both shows have received unprecedented HD makeovers.

I feel also that Voyager and Enterprise showed little ingenuity.

The main enemies in Voyager were initally the Vidiians and the Kazons, however later seasons focused on the Borg or an enemy of the week (such as Jason Alexander's character).

Enterprise started with the Xindi, but later focused on the Klingons. Was there any need for Klingons in Enterprise? Why not have the Xindi as the continuous main enemy? To me, part of the glory of TNG/DS9 were their respective enemies. The Borg were invincible, and the Dominion a highly innovative concept.
 
Enterprise started with the Xindi, but later focused on the Klingons. Was there any need for Klingons in Enterprise? Why not have the Xindi as the continuous main enemy? To me, part of the glory of TNG/DS9 were their respective enemies. The Borg were invincible, and the Dominion a highly innovative concept.

Enterprise started with the Suliban and Klingons were in the pilot of the show, the Xindi didn't show up til the end of the second season.
 
many of the best dramas have characters that come and go (including the lead character)
Which ones? I watch a lot of terrific series and they all have the main character in every episode, and generally have all or most of the main cast too.
CSI, NYPD Blue, and E.R. are among a handful of shows that have had main characters come and go. While the changes are frequently the result of cast changes, the shows generally incorporate new characters rather than recast the roles.


NYPD Blue - 12 seasons
E.R. - 15 seasons
C.S.I. - 12 seasons

Thus far the longest a ST show has lasted is 7 seasons, perhaps if they lasted longer we might see cast changes.

That isn't to say we can't have them before. in TNG we had
Denise Crosby leave, Wil Wheaton leave, Gates McFadden left for a year and Diana Muldaur was brought in. VOY had Jeri Ryan join as Seven of Nine, whilse Jennifer Lein left.
 
A procedural needs to have a stronger real world connection so that it has credibility. Outer space crimes would be too arbitrary for the procedural fans and too limiting for the space opera fans. There are some cop show/sci fi hybrids on TV but theyre all based in the modern day real world - Haven, Grimm, etc. And I wouldnt call them procedurals per se.
Isaac Asimov's "Robots" novels and short stories are procedurals.
 
Well in past years we have had space based cop shows

Star Cops (1987)
Space Precinct (1994-1995)
Space Rangers (1993)


However procedural shows can work within in the genre, but they tend to be more contemprary in nature.

Life on Mars (2006-2007)
Ashes to Ashes (2008-2010)
 
Which ones? I watch a lot of terrific series and they all have the main character in every episode, and generally have all or most of the main cast too.
CSI, NYPD Blue, and E.R. are among a handful of shows that have had main characters come and go. While the changes are frequently the result of cast changes, the shows generally incorporate new characters rather than recast the roles.


NYPD Blue - 12 seasons
E.R. - 15 seasons
C.S.I. - 12 seasons

Thus far the longest a ST show has lasted is 7 seasons, perhaps if they lasted longer we might see cast changes.
NYPD Blue and E.R. had several major cast changes prior to their seventh seasons, and C.S.I. has had three different lead actors.

Popular daytime and primetime soaps generally had cast members and their characters come and go on a frequent basis.
 
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