Question about TOS remaster

[Bonzo the Fifth]

Seeing all of the effort and work going into the TNG remastering process has me thinking and I'd like some input on this:

From what I understand, the TOS remaster was possible because the finished masters were already on 35mm film, which means that the Herculean efforts being put forward to essentially rebuild TNG (and potentially DS9 and Voyager) from scratch weren't necessary, save for the redoing of the FX shots, as those shots were not remasterable to the same degree the live action stuff was.

My question comes in multiple parts. One, is there any chance that TOS still exists as TNG does, as unfinished film reels that could be recomposited if so desired, including the original FX reels? Secondly: would a reconstruction/remaster a la the TNG remaster be enough of an improvement to be worth the effort?

I'm only asking out of curiosity. Personally, I like the remaster with the CGI FX and am quite happy with it. It's just that seeing the results of all this effort going into the TNG remaster got me thinking, was all, and it made me curious if similar improvements could potentially be made to the existing model footage of TOS, assuming said original footage still existed to be recomposited.

 

[Mytran]

The Bluray sets give you the choice of viewing either the new CGI effects, or the upscaled original effects (which I imagine would look pretty grainy by comparison)

It's a lovely piece of consideration to the fans who can now enjoy the episodes in the way they CHOOSE, and not being dictated to by a Lucasfilm-style dictatorship.

 

[Christopher]

From what I understand, the TOS remaster was possible because the finished masters were already on 35mm film, which means that the Herculean efforts being put forward to essentially rebuild TNG (and potentially DS9 and Voyager) from scratch weren't necessary, save for the redoing of the FX shots, as those shots were not remasterable to the same degree the live action stuff was.

My question comes in multiple parts. One, is there any chance that TOS still exists as TNG does, as unfinished film reels that could be recomposited if so desired, including the original FX reels?

I don't think so. I have the impression that the reason the FX shots had to be recreated is because the original film elements they were made from were lost or destroyed. It was hard enough for the TNG remastering team to find every last bit of raw footage from that series, and they're still missing about 2 seconds' worth.

Secondly: would a reconstruction/remaster a la the TNG remaster be enough of an improvement to be worth the effort?

Maybe in some cases, some of the basic shots that were recreated with the early, less detailed CG model of the Enterprise used by TOS-R. But a lot of the additions made in TOS-R were definite improvements, like the new matte paintings and planet images replacing recycled ones. So if they could find the original FX elements, maybe something that kept many of them when it was feasible but used the new shots when they were replacing stock footage would work, or maybe something that combined the original ship elements with CG backgrounds/planets.

Certainly it would be great if we could see the raw Enterprise footage in digitally remastered, high-definition form. I bet it would be as much of a revelation as the HD footage of the Enterprise-D -- at least, if the film were preserved well enough. Then again, given how much less detailed the miniature was, it might look more fake if we could see it in HD.

 

[Maurice]

Just to clarify, TOS does NOT exist as "as unfinished film reels". The film was edited—read, literally cut— to assemble the episodes, and much of the unused footage appears to have been diced up and sold through the Roddenberrys' Lincoln Enterprises business. As above, the visual effects elements are just as lost. As such, the chance of rebuilding the show a la TNG is basically impossible.

 

[BillJ]

Just to clarify, TOS does NOT exist as "as unfinished film reels". The film was edited—read, literally cut— to assemble the episodes, and much of the unused footage appears to have been diced up and sold through the Roddenberrys' Lincoln Enterprises business. As above, the visual effects elements are just as lost. As such, the chance of rebuilding the show a la TNG is basically impossible.

While I love TOS-R, it's a shame all those elements were lost to time. It would've been incredible to see it rebuilt like TNG.

 

[NTRPRZ]

What really would have been incredible would be if they could present all of the footage shot for an episode -- including all the takes from different angles and bloopers. Then we could see how an episode is put together as well as the decisions made in the editing room. And, of course, we also could create our own "alternate" episodes using different takes or differnt shots.

 

[Christopher]

And, of course, we also could create our own "alternate" episodes using different takes or differnt shots.

I don't understand people who think that's a good idea, or who assume they're remotely qualified to do the job of a film editor. If you let me into a restaurant kitchen and let me create an "alternate" recipe for a gourmet meal, or took me to an auto assembly plant and let me create an "alternate" way of putting a car together, the results would probably be disastrous, because I don't have the training or experience that it takes to do the job professionally or even competently. I'd only be working against my own best interests if I tried to do the job myself rather than trusting in the pros who actually know what they're doing. Film editing is no different. It's not something any untrained person can figure out on the first try, but something that takes years of intensive training and experience to be able to do well.

 

[BillJ]

And, of course, we also could create our own "alternate" episodes using different takes or differnt shots.

I don't understand people who think that's a good idea, or who assume they're remotely qualified to do the job of a film editor. If you let me into a restaurant kitchen and let me create an "alternate" recipe for a gourmet meal, or took me to an auto assembly plant and let me create an "alternate" way of putting a car together, the results would probably be disastrous, because I don't have the training or experience that it takes to do the job professionally or even competently. I'd only be working against my own best interests if I tried to do the job myself rather than trusting in the pros who actually know what they're doing. Film editing is no different. It's not something any untrained person can figure out on the first try, but something that takes years of intensive training and experience to be able to do well.

I think you're overthinking this one.

He's just talking about something fun to fiddle around with at home.

 

[Redfern]

I suspect Christopher is fearing the glut of sloppily editted YouTube videos that would result.

Sincerely,

Bill

 

[Hober Mallow]

From what I understand, the TOS remaster was possible because the finished masters were already on 35mm film, which means that the Herculean efforts being put forward to essentially rebuild TNG (and potentially DS9 and Voyager) from scratch weren't necessary, save for the redoing of the FX shots, as those shots were not remasterable to the same degree the live action stuff was.

Mmm... not quite.

The remaster itself had nothing to do with the added FX. The entire episodes -- including the original FX -- were remastered. Only after the remaster were new FX added for TV broadcast, but you can watch the original episodes in their entirety with original FX on the bluray sets. If you want to watch the the episodes with the new FX, you click to watch with "enhanced FX." In other words, the HD remaster itself was accomplished before the new FX were added. The new FX are the only part of the show that wasn't remastered.

Yes, it's a shame the original elements weren't available, but some of the old FX look pretty good in HD, including the shuttle launch in "Galileo 7" (wobbly starfield notwithstanding). Some shots are *extremely* grainy, but I like to watch the original episodes, warts and all. I went through the bluray sets with the enhanced FX exactly one time, and now I always watch with the original FX.

My question comes in multiple parts. One, is there any chance that TOS still exists as TNG does, as unfinished film reels that could be recomposited if so desired, including the original FX reels? Secondly: would a reconstruction/remaster a la the TNG remaster be enough of an improvement to be worth the effort?

Nope, the original FX elements definitely no longer exist, which means what we have now is probably the best TOS is ever going to look.

I'm only asking out of curiosity. Personally, I like the remaster with the CGI FX and am quite happy with it. It's just that seeing the results of all this effort going into the TNG remaster got me thinking, was all, and it made me curious if similar improvements could potentially be made to the existing model footage of TOS, assuming said original footage still existed to be recomposited.

They had no reason back then to bother storing any of the original film elements.

I don't care for the CGI, but the remaster wasn't about the CGI. It was about preserving the original series in high definition. And I'm still amazed by the results.

 

[Christopher]

^Right. Remastering means going back to the original master print of the film and making new, high-resolution copies from it. Despite how the word was abused, the new FX shots were the only parts that were not remastered, because they were entirely new creations rather than being printed from the original masters.