"The Dark Knight Rises" Review and Discussion Thread (spoilers)

[Allyn Gibson]

Yeah, I'm kind of baffled that some people insist on seeing this as an Inception ending.

Not all Nolan movies are ambiguous, and none of his Batman movies are.

I actually haven't seen Inception, and even without seeing it the interpretation of the ending I had coming out of the film was that the final scene was possibly, even likely Alfred's dream. I thought it was a brave and bittersweet way to end the film, on an ambiguous note.

I consider myself agnostic on the ending to The Dark Knight Rises. The evidence in both directions is compelling but not convincing.

 

[Set Harth]

The scene where it is explained that Wayne patched the autopilot is no dream. That scene has an obvious implication, without which it serves no purpose.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

The scene where it is explained that Wayne patched the autopilot is no dream. That scene has an obvious implication, without which it serves no purpose.

Like I said, the evidence in either direction is compelling, but not convincing. In the one direction, you have the narrative evidence of the autopilot patch and the missing string of pearls. In the other direction, you have the science of nuclear explosions and the narrative evidence of Batman in the Bat with five seconds before detonation.

 

[Greg Cox]

The scene where it is explained that Wayne patched the autopilot is no dream. That scene has an obvious implication, without which it serves no purpose.

Like I said, the evidence in either direction is compelling, but not convincing. In the one direction, you have the narrative evidence of the autopilot patch and the missing string of pearls. In the other direction, you have the science of nuclear explosions and the narrative evidence of Batman in the Bat with five seconds before detonation.

Honestly, I read the script and there was no indication that those final scenes were meant to be ambiguous or open to interpretation in any way. Or that the final scene with Alfred was some sort of fantasy sequence. It was just as real and concrete as Gordon finding the new Bat-signal on the roof, as real as Lucius discovering that Bruce had secretly fixed the autopilot, as real as the orphans moving into the manor, as real as John Blake finding the Batcave . . . .

I'm genuinely surprised that so many people are speculating that the Alfred scene was a dream or a vision or whatever. That's certainly not how I handled it in the novelization (on sale tomorrow, btw). And certainly nobody at Warner Bros. told me to make it ambiguous or anything . . . .

Besides, if Batman was supposed to be dead, and that last bit was just a reverie, what about Selina? She didn't "die" in the explosion, so why wouldn't she get an epilogue of her own, if that final scene wasn't meant to wrap up her story as well?

 

[doubleohfive]

...never mind the fact that he's the goddamn Batman, and clearly he had time to prepare...

 

[sojourner]

I think most of the "it's a dream" view comes from how the scene was filmed. It had a certain dreamlike quality.

 

[Dick Whitman]

Great point Greg, that is the last image of Selina in the whole film. Before that they kissed goodbye in costume right? Clearly setup for the revelation at the end. There is nothing dream like about that scene at all. Also the last image is Blake in the cave. Strange to have a fake dreamlike moment before a real one.

 

[CaptainCanada]

In the other direction, you have the science of nuclear explosions and the narrative evidence of Batman in the Bat with five seconds before detonation.

Science really doesn't enter into it. Plenty of stuff happened in this series that doesn't take that into account. The editing of the sequence is designed to mislead, but I don't see how that could possibly stand up to all the clear narrative points indicating his survival.

 

[Agent Richard07]

...Bruce getting back to 100% in 2 1/2 weeks is ridiculous.

About 5 months had passed.

Ultimately, as great as the first two movies were, I just think Nolan grounded the character and mythos a little TOO much. They're not Batman movies-- they're crime dramas with a little bit of Batman sprinkled in here and there.

That's pretty much what I want... A good long dramatic thriller with several acts, dectonstructing the idea of what it takes for a man to fight crime and what his life and relationships go through as a result. ...with the story of Batman being the vehicle for that.

Honestly, I read the script and there was no indication that those final scenes were meant to be ambiguous or open to interpretation in any way. Or that the final scene with Alfred was some sort of fantasy sequence. It was just as real and concrete as Gordon finding the new Bat-signal on the roof, as real as Lucius discovering that Bruce had secretly fixed the autopilot, as real as the orphans moving into the manor, as real as John Blake finding the Batcave . . . .

I'm genuinely surprised that so many people are speculating that the Alfred scene was a dream or a vision or whatever. That's certainly not how I handled it in the novelization (on sale tomorrow, btw). And certainly nobody at Warner Bros. told me to make it ambiguous or anything . . . .

Besides, if Batman was supposed to be dead, and that last bit was just a reverie, what about Selina? She didn't "die" in the explosion, so why wouldn't she get an epilogue of her own, if that final scene wasn't meant to wrap up her story as well?

Well, it could have been a fantasy sequence. You never know.

I'm kidding. I took it to be 100% real and never questioned that.

 

[Captain Craig]

To nitpick the plot one of the less plausible parts of the film is - what deranged police cheif would deploy virtually the entire police force an a 'training exercise', that was really a man hunt? Moreover, the film would have us believe that 3,000 police officers were trapped underground for weeks - come out of being trapped - and have spotless uniforms and are ready to fight.

Very far fetched part of the plot.

I saw it with a group of 6 and one of the women in the group brought this up as her first critique. No way they hadn't atrophied from 80+ days underground with little to no means to stay fit.

I segued with a similar point about how Bruce had apparently atrophied from ceasing his activities and how the medical diagnosis showed us perhaps why. YET, after his back injury in those same 80 days his body was ready to fight, loss of cartilage etc that caused him to use a cane be damned. Guess the prison work out regrows cartilage. His leaping from the pit was made sans knee brace which he clearly needed earlier.

The thing is, after the Marvel-movies/Michael Bay era, we are used to not only getting an action-packed opening, but an action-packed everything.

These are not only NOT the same type of movie experience but not the same era. Bay has been making movies since the 90's afterall. The Marvel style is not in tone or pacing similar to a Bay film, it's a bit insulting imo to put them together like that.

I decided to wait a week out respect of what happened in colorodo. Plan to see it this saturday.

I get that this was how you chose to pay respects but let me say that I chose to go as a big FU to all crazy mofo's that I will not alter my life based on you. I went for those people who had the opportunity to do so taken from them.


I'm seeing the movie one more time but let me chime in that our group also had issue with Bane's voice. It was not that clear. Me and another guy also felt the film did a poor job of displaying the passage of time for those 80+ days the city was under siege.

 

[davejames]

I think most of the "it's a dream" view comes from how the scene was filmed. It had a certain dreamlike quality.

Well that and the sheer implausibility of him surviving a nuclear blast at that close a range.

Like me, I imagine most people during that final scene were thinking "wait, exactly how did he survive that again?"

 

[Warped9]

If Bruce fixed the autopilot who's to say he didn't eject before the Bat crossed out over the bay? When the Bat is seen flying over the bridge Bruce might already have bailed among the canyon of buildings.

 

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

If Bruce fixed the autopilot who's to say he didn't eject before the Bat crossed out over the bay? When the Bat is seen flying over the bridge Bruce might already have bailed among the canyon of buildings.

I'd have to watch it again. We'd have to know the very last moment Nolan cut to a shot of Wayne in the cockpit

 

[Guartho]

You know, we were talking after the movie..... A lot of people must be very deaf. Since no one I spoke to had any issues whatsoever understanding Bane. Is this just a haters gonna hate thing, or do most theaters have crappy sound installations or something?

I think my theater had crappy sound. Could be as simple as well meaning teenage theater employees going "Hurr durr, turn the bass up. That'll be aw3som3!" You know, because kids talk in leet speak these days.

 

[Dick Whitman]

He was prepared!

Its a cliche I don't like but I used it.

There is an interesting dichotomy at work with this film. Fans always say they prefer Batman over actual super powered heroes. Because he is human. But even a man at the height of human physical perfection could never do what Batman does for a long time. While Batman retiring has been criticized, its acknowleding his humanity. Which is a huge part of his appeal.

But another part of his appeal is that he can survive anything. That has been true of most versions of the characters. Even if it pushes the realm of plausibility and this human hero basically is superhuman. Well the movie is being true to the character! I like that for this finale Nolan really embraced the more fantastic comic elements.

 

[Guartho]

When Batman ramps the car carrier and escapes the horde of cop cars and Foley asks on the radio "How did he escape?" Was I the only one who really really really wanted to hear over the radio "What are you dense? What are you retarded? He's the god damned Batman!" or at least "He's the god damned Batman!"

 

[Guartho]

He was prepared!

Its a cliche I don't like but I used it.

Bane's fatal mistake was locking Bruce Wayne up with nothing but time.

 

[tighr]

I'd have to watch it again. We'd have to know the very last moment Nolan cut to a shot of Wayne in the cockpit

We saw BATMAN in the cockpit, but was it WAYNE?

 

[Warped9]

When Batman ramps the car carrier and escapes the horde of cop cars and Foley asks on the radio "How did he escape?" Was I the only one who really really really wanted to hear over the radio "What are you dense? What are you retarded? He's the god damned Batman!" or at least "He's the god damned Batman!"

I liked the sense I got that most of the rank-and-file regular cops didn't seem to buy the bogus story about Batman being a murderer and having killed Harvey Dent and the others. Blake and the kids we saw really got this across.

 

[davejames]

If Bruce fixed the autopilot who's to say he didn't eject before the Bat crossed out over the bay? When the Bat is seen flying over the bridge Bruce might already have bailed among the canyon of buildings.

I'd have to watch it again. We'd have to know the very last moment Nolan cut to a shot of Wayne in the cockpit

We see that closeup shot of him staring at the sun right before the bomb goes off, and he's clearly still in The Bat.