TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

[R. Star]

Everyone complains about Worf being a jerk in Let He Without Sin... but really so was Dax. The whole episode she was acting very selfish the entire episode too. First she should probably know taking Worf, the Klingon glacier to a pleasure planet is a bad idea. She forced her idea down Worf's throat, then complained non-stop the whole episode when surprise... Worf didn't like it. To escelate the situation she's acting in a way she has to know would deliberately annoy Worf. I'm not excusing Worf's behavior by any means, but really what did you expect from him?

The Fundamentalists... would have been so much more interesting if they weren't like those enviromental nutcases sabotaging SUV's to protest car pollution. Any point they might have had to make gets lost in their idiocy of their methods.

Really the most amusing part of the episode is Quark acting completely in character. Which naturally(and thankfully) once she goes off with the girls, that's the last we see of him for awhile. I like Quark but I don't need to see him in the middle of an orgy.

Things Past... yeah Garak got out of prison awfully quick didn't he? But the Federation penal system is so generous maybe they just let him out on good behavior. "Now be good and don't try and genocide any planets again and start an interstellar war."

I applaud DS9 for avoiding the flashback and overly Trek cliche of time travel. The execution here was awkard to say the least and you just have to smile and nod at it. It's nice to see Odo isn't the saint of justice like the show so often makes him out to be, but a character with a darker element. Honestly if I was giving him a D&D alignment, I'd make him Lawful Neutral. He pretty much just wants order no matter who's running the show. I think he was remorseful of his actions just as much because he knew it would upset Kira not to mention stain his perfect record as to the morality of it.

Really I don't see why Kira has the right to be upset at the end given how Necessary Evil ended and she had her darker elements.

 

[Gul Bones]

I love Odo's abject panic and desperate plea's to himself to preform a more thorough investigation on the 3 men.

 

[apenpaap]

I liked Things Past a lot... But one odd thing is Garak being quite ungarakky. He doesn't do much in the episode, pickpocketing one guard and hacking into the computer for relatively useless information, that's all, and he gets off only one or two memorable lines. He's a lot less useful and less snarky than he usually is, which leads me to wonder if the part was originally written for Chief O'Brien or Dax (presumably with Kira in place of where Dax was in the eventual episode) before they figured Garak was always a good thing to have in your episode.

 

[Sykonee]

I've eased myself off the alcohol by going back on the meth. Does that count as sober?

Having recently lurked over at the Gaming sub-forum, I discovered that Godben is also a Civilization player. It then occurred to me that these relapses are actually codes for the games he's playing at a given time. Gander:

Mass Effect 3 = Alcohol
Everything during a binge seems wonderful, emotionally gratifying, and you can't wait to do it again. Yet, at the end of it all, you're left feeling miserable and utterly depressed. And those last moments? Somehow can't remember, and you suspect it's better that way.

Civilization V = Meth
As a recovered Civ2 addict, I know what these games are like. Always jonesing for one more round, one more round, one more hit, one more hit. And this can go on for days without realizing it. Still, if Civ2 was like digital crack, Civ5 has got to be the ultra-addictive upgraded shit.

 

[Seven of Five]

Meth is easily the way forward - glad to see you're recovering! I think the new ending for Mass Effect seemed to help the transition from one substance to another, by not being a more substantial schange that it needed to be.

Addictions for everyone!

Things Past is almost a poor man's Necessary Evil, but only almost. There's still plenty to like about it, even if the framing device is somewhat clumsy.

 

[TheGodBen]

Mass Effect 3 = Alcohol

Civilization V = Meth

Hmm, I'd say that Civilization is more like heroin, you just sort of relax and enter an other-worldly state for hours on end, completely losing track of the world around you, but never really feeling in any danger.

Minecraft is the meth of gaming. It consumes your time in a similar way, but you're constantly on edge throughout the experience, you always feel like there's something behind you watching everything you do, waiting for the right moment to pounce. It also feeds the player's obsessive compulsive tendencies.

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

As far as Garak in this episode...I would have thought enduring the treatment the Bajorans did would've taught him a lesson--but no. I hate to say this...but I would've liked to see him suffer more. He deserved it.

 

[Quinton O'Connor]

Haha, yes, TGB. Been busy with college and Mass Effect 3 and Civilization V. Go figure that I happen upon a comparison between those games and drugs. Truly, I've embarked upon a standard college experience.

Up to the third season now. Happy to see you reviewing another episode on this page! Can't wait to be caught up.

 

[R. Star]

As far as Garak in this episode...I would have thought enduring the treatment the Bajorans did would've taught him a lesson--but no. I hate to say this...but I would've liked to see him suffer more. He deserved it.

Well there's morality for you. Really Garak isn't so much an evil person as a person who lacks any morals whatsoever. Evil people usually know what they're doing is wrong on some level, even if they try and justify it. Dukat's a good example of this for example. Good, evil, right, wrong, these are just labels others use to define themselves and often enough limit themselves, to Garak.

Garak had the same outlook when he was in power and when he was in exile, and even in this episode when he's in the proverbial slave pens. One side had the power and used it. That was just the way it worked. He would apply that power ruthlessly if need be when he had it. Likewise he expected the people who had it in this episode to apply it equally ruthlessly.

Really the only two people Garak seemed to break this mindset over were Tain and Mila. His parents, and what a screwed up family that was. As for Garak deserving to suffer? Well I'm sure there are varying opinions on that. I will say one of Star Trek's themes was, that humanity was supposed to be beyond such base desires.

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

Not Deep Space Nine's themes. DS9 can be summed up by Quark's statement in AR-558, that once you take away humanity's creature comforts, they are really just as base as anybody else.

 

[Ln X]

Civilization V = Meth
As a recovered Civ2 addict, I know what these games are like. Always jonesing for one more round, one more round, one more hit, one more hit. And this can go on for days without realizing it. Still, if Civ2 was like digital crack, Civ5 has got to be the ultra-addictive upgraded shit.

To true, to true...

A recovering turn-based game player and urban simulator addict...

Not Deep Space Nine's themes. DS9 can be summed up by Quark's statement in AR-558, that once you take away humanity's creature comforts, they are really just as base as anybody else.

That is probably my favorite lines in all of DS9 but didn't Quark also say something about long periods of stress, pressure and lack of sleep as well?

 

[Sykonee]

Hmm, I'd say that Civilization is more like heroin, you just sort of relax and enter an other-worldly state for hours on end, completely losing track of the world around you, but never really feeling in any danger.

Minecraft is the meth of gaming. It consumes your time in a similar way, but you're constantly on edge throughout the experience, you always feel like there's something behind you watching everything you do, waiting for the right moment to pounce. It also feeds the player's obsessive compulsive tendencies.

Man, good thing I never gave Minecraft a try.

(just noticed you started the Minecraft thread in Gaming as well ...the theory sustains!)

 

[Quinton O'Connor]

Phew. All. Caught. Up.

TheGodBen, now that I'm here, you really ought to get into a really rad groove again and post lots of reviews! There is a 70% chance at least that I will stick around and talk about the episodes.

I hope "Profit and Lace" doesn't cause another month-long boozing...!

 

[TheGodBen]

I'll try not to take so long for the next episode, I actually watched Things Past about 2 or 3 weeks ago and I just didn't get around to posting my thoughts on it as I'm an expert procrastinator.

Man, good thing I never gave Minecraft a try.

You should, it's fun. I built and live in this village. No monsters will get me in my fortress, I tell you what!

Also, the Steam summer sale is just around the corner, you might be able to get Civ V for less than $10. You'd like it, it has hexagons.

 

[apenpaap]

Personally, I thought Civ V was pretty meh. Now, if you really want the best drug the gaming world has to offer, get Civ IV.

 

[TheGodBen]

I love the 1-unit-per-tile rule too much, I can't go back to those horrendously boring stacks of doom. The vanilla game certainly had its issues though, but the new expansion has rectified most of them.

 

[Sykonee]

You should, it's fun. I built and live in this village. No monsters will get me in my fortress, I tell you what!

Yeah, I fear its time-sink abilities, especially when my current projects are uber-time-sinks already. Plus, the scale of the whole thing renders the mind to boggles: Scroll up a little ways...

 

[Quinton O'Connor]

I can second what TGB is sellin'. Of Gods and Kings is a-freakin'-mazin'.

 

[TheGodBen]

Plus, the scale of the whole thing renders the mind to boggles: Scroll up a little ways...

While a Minecraft world can technically be up to 8 times the surface area of the Earth, nobody actually has a world that big, you'd run out of disk space before even getting close. In general, I've only explored around 2-4km from my spawn in each direction in my SP world. On Robert Maxwell's server, which I infrequently () play on, people have explored maybe 10-20km out.

There is one guy that's doing a Youtube series where he's attempting to walk all the way to the edge of the map. He has been doing it for about a year now and, extrapolating from the progress he has made in that time, it will probably take him about 20 more to reach it. Here's a map of his progress.

 

[datalogan]

I really enjoyed "Things Past". Sure, the premise of how the characters got into and out of their predicament was pretty ridiculous. But so was it in "Trials and Tribble-ations". Sometimes you just have to look past the set-up to the greatness in the rest of the episode. (Plus, see below for possible explanation.)

"Things Past" is one of those episodes best watched upon repeat viewings. The first time through you are so wrapped up as a viewer in the whole storyline of "how did we get here; who are we; how do we get back home?" that you are not able to fully appreciate the other (better) aspects of the story. And it's especially frustrating when the storyline of "how did we get here" turns out to be so stupid. I can see how one might be a little ticked off. You're like "I just invested 40 minutes into this puzzle and it turns out it was all just a dream? What a gyp."

This episode is really all about Odo's guilt. About how not even Odo escaped the horrors of the Occupation without getting blood on his hands. On repeat viewings you can really focus on Odo's reaction to the situation. He instantly knows what is going on and when and where the crew are. He recognizes the situation because he was just thinking about it in the runabout, and he feels his own guilt over the way things will go. Rene Auberjonois does his usual great job as Odo, fully portraying the sorrow and grief and restrained anger at himself and his embarrassment at having to share this mistake with others. And Kurtwood Smith does a great job portraying the younger, more sure of himself, Odo (even though he appears to look like Thrax).

Through the Thrax version of Odo, we see how Odo ran things during the Occupation. Including that great scene between Thrax (who is really Odo) and Quark. Interesting to see how those 2 guys interacted only a years after their first meeting (which we saw back in 2nd season episode "Necessary Evil"). This is Odo all the way; it just looks like Thrax because Odo's subconscious was trying to cover up his guilt.

The scene at the end of the episode between Kira and Odo plays an interesting parallel to the scene at the end of "Necessary Evil", but with the roles reversed. In "Necessary Evil" it was Odo scolding Kira for not telling him earlier that she had killed someone. Now it's Kira scolding Odo for not telling her earlier of his mistake here. Important point for the relationship between these two characters.

One possible positive thing to get out of the ridiculous "you all had a joint dream very much like the Great Link": doesn't the fact that Odo still has a morphogenic matrix suggests that he's not completely humanoid and may eventually be able to turn back into his old shape-shifter self (which happens just episodes later)? Plus, it allowed them to basically time travel without having to time travel, as TheGodBen pointed out.

OK, here's something to consider:
It's possible that Bashir has been replaced by a changeling at this point.

As Odo's body was calling out for other changelings to link with, perhaps the undercover Bashir changeling (UBC) could have linked with Odo (secretly, of course, without the other medical staff or Worf finding out) and guided the vision that Odo, Garak, Dax, and Sisko were living through. In fact, maybe it was the UBC that caused the link in the first place. Makes more sense than some random ion storm. But what would the Founders hope to gain by putting Odo through that vision of his past? Perhaps they just wanted to make Odo feel bad. Or maybe they wanted him to be reminded of the bad parts of living with the solids as a way of getting him to return to the Great Link. Or, maybe, they were just looking for a way to drive a stake between Odo and Kira. They want to spoil Odo's relationship with Kira (again so he'll be more motivated to return to the Great Link), and what better way to do that than to make Kira loose her trust in Odo?