Shatner drops pants at L.A. airport

[137th Gebirg]

You saw a Muslim woman with a hijab and a beard? Perhaps you might wanna visit the eye doctor instead of spouting out racist rants about oh-so-wicked looking Arabs not being searched.
Rules apply for everybody. Welcome in the West.

Read my post again. You deflect the point I'm making with an infantile jape showing that you're the one in need of visual correction.

Men don't wear hijabs and a racist rant is hardly a point.

Ah, I see. I guess I must have deeply offended the fragile sensibilities of all those who wear hijabs. Guess I should have checked my facts before I self-scuttled my entire argument.

You're absolutely right! The fact that I improperly named a particular garment completely invalidates my position. And I humbly bow before your advanced knowledge of the Arab World.

 

[Gov Kodos]

It obviously matters to you. In your rant you clearly implied that you have issued with security officers searching famous white folks.

Actually, no. I take issue with the fact that they go out of their way to search anyone EXCEPT those of the Arabic/Persian persuasion. Yep! I said it! And I've seen it happen. 80 year-old women, children - white, black, hispanic - whatever - being pulled for searching. All while the Arab with the 3-foot long beard, wearing a hijab, his wife (or wives) decked out head-to-toe in her burqa and brood of 7 rowdy kids being allowed to walk through the line unquestioned. Yeah. Makes a lot of really good sense.

THAT is what I have a problem with. The Shatner thing should be a no-brainer and it honestly surprises me how anyone could defend such indefensible behavior.

Of course, what you've seen is indicative of nothing but your own experience, not a general trend. "Random search" means "random search," not "say it's random but then racially profile Arabs." I'm not sure you even understand the point of making it random--it's specifically so a terrorist group can't rely on an attacker's appearance to get them through security. Oh, they only profile Arab-looking men? Recruit women with light skin. So much for that, huh?

I guess we could just have 'em strip-search everyone. Would ya like that?

In a Boston or New York airport, I'd say the family in traditional Arab dress would be the least likely to cause trouble since they're the most easily noticeable in the environment. One generally doesn't want attention when up to illegal behavior.

 

[horatio83]

Ah, I see. I guess I must have deeply offended the fragile sensibilities of all those who wear hijabs. Guess I should have checked my facts before I self-scuttled my entire argument.

You're absolutely right! The fact that I improperly named a particular garment completely invalidates my position. And I humbly bow before your advanced knowledge of the Arab World.

Has the evil Arab crossdresser with the hijab and the meter-long beard already blown up a plane and eaten all your babies?

 

[Robert Maxwell]

Read my post again. You deflect the point I'm making with an infantile jape showing that you're the one in need of visual correction.

Men don't wear hijabs and a racist rant is hardly a point.

Ah, I see. I guess I must have deeply offended the fragile sensibilities of all those who wear hijabs. Guess I should have checked my facts before I self-scuttled my entire argument.

You're absolutely right! The fact that I improperly named a particular garment completely invalidates my position. And I humbly bow before your advanced knowledge of the Arab World.

I think you missed the more basic point that you made comments in an authoritative manner ("it's wrong that we don't racially profile Arabs!") and at the same time betrayed your own ignorance of Muslim customs. It's hard to take someone seriously when they don't know what they're talking about.

I'd also like to point out that the 9/11 hijackers were wearing Western clothing (suits, casual dress, etc.) and not traditional Muslim garb.

 

[137th Gebirg]

It obviously matters to you. In your rant you clearly implied that you have issued with security officers searching famous white folks.

Actually, no. I take issue with the fact that they go out of their way to search anyone EXCEPT those of the Arabic/Persian persuasion. Yep! I said it! And I've seen it happen. 80 year-old women, children - white, black, hispanic - whatever - being pulled for searching. All while the Arab with the 3-foot long beard, wearing a hijab, his wife (or wives) decked out head-to-toe in her burqa and brood of 7 rowdy kids being allowed to walk through the line unquestioned. Yeah. Makes a lot of really good sense.

Do you have evidence that they are deliberately ignoring muslims, or is that just an assumption based on your personal experience of American airports?

You having seen it happen a few times is not evidence of anything, since not all muslims would be searched in any case.

Very true - I only have my experiences to draw on. I am not a TSA employee, nor am I privy to any internal memos that would officially substantiate such a policy. If there were, do you really think they would ever see the light of day? Oh, well. Enjoy your flight. Glad you all feel so safe now.

 

[Robert Maxwell]

Actually, no. I take issue with the fact that they go out of their way to search anyone EXCEPT those of the Arabic/Persian persuasion. Yep! I said it! And I've seen it happen. 80 year-old women, children - white, black, hispanic - whatever - being pulled for searching. All while the Arab with the 3-foot long beard, wearing a hijab, his wife (or wives) decked out head-to-toe in her burqa and brood of 7 rowdy kids being allowed to walk through the line unquestioned. Yeah. Makes a lot of really good sense.

Do you have evidence that they are deliberately ignoring muslims, or is that just an assumption based on your personal experience of American airports?

You having seen it happen a few times is not evidence of anything, since not all muslims would be searched in any case.

Very true - I only have my experiences to draw on. I am not a TSA employee, nor am I privy to any internal memos that would officially substantiate such a policy. If there were, do you really think they would ever see the light of day? Oh, well. Enjoy your flight. Glad you all feel so safe now.

What the hell is your problem? Walking back the whole "racial profiling is awesome" stance to go for "lol security theater" instead?

 

[137th Gebirg]

Do you have evidence that they are deliberately ignoring muslims, or is that just an assumption based on your personal experience of American airports?

You having seen it happen a few times is not evidence of anything, since not all muslims would be searched in any case.

Very true - I only have my experiences to draw on. I am not a TSA employee, nor am I privy to any internal memos that would officially substantiate such a policy. If there were, do you really think they would ever see the light of day? Oh, well. Enjoy your flight. Glad you all feel so safe now.

What the hell is your problem? Walking back the whole "racial profiling is awesome" stance to go for "lol security theater" instead?

My point was, racial profiling IS going on - it's just that TSA was going out of their way to search everyone EXCEPT Arabs. Let's not even take the clothing issue into consideration. Let's simply look at where the passport is from and the destination of the individual. Pulling over granny on her way to Disney World seems a bit disingenuous when you're letting someone with a middle eastern visa go unquestioned, is all I'm saying.

No, I have no written proof that this is the policy. All I know is what I have seen.

 

[Robert Maxwell]

Very true - I only have my experiences to draw on. I am not a TSA employee, nor am I privy to any internal memos that would officially substantiate such a policy. If there were, do you really think they would ever see the light of day? Oh, well. Enjoy your flight. Glad you all feel so safe now.

What the hell is your problem? Walking back the whole "racial profiling is awesome" stance to go for "lol security theater" instead?

My point was, racial profiling IS going on - it's just that TSA was going out of their way to search everyone EXCEPT Arabs. Let's not even take the clothing issue into consideration. Let's simply look at where the passport is from and the destination of the individual. Pulling over granny on her way to Disney World seems a bit disingenuous when you're letting someone with a middle eastern visa go unquestioned, is all I'm saying.

No, I have no written proof that this is the policy. All I know is what I have seen.

Yes, because any Muslim terrorist is going to have dark skin, a full beard, a turban, a passport from Saudi Arabia, and a brochure entitled "How to Blow Up Planes for Allah."

 

[137th Gebirg]

Really? Your argument is hyperbole and exaggeration? Seriously though, shouldn't they at least try?

 

[Gov Kodos]

Richard Reid's British, English mom and Jamaican dad, so while all the Arabs are being strip searched he's....?

 

[horatio83]

My point was, racial profiling IS going on - it's just that TSA was going out of their way to search everyone EXCEPT Arabs. Let's not even take the clothing issue into consideration. Let's simply look at where the passport is from and the destination of the individual. Pulling over granny on her way to Disney World seems a bit disingenuous when you're letting someone with a middle eastern visa go unquestioned, is all I'm saying.

No, I have no written proof that this is the policy. All I know is what I have seen.

Bullshit. First, your clichée description of an Arab is obviously not an actual experience but a product of your imagination and xenophobia, second, even if it were real one observation hardly allows one to generalize and third, as Robert has already pointed out, the 9/11 criminals did not match your racist image of what an evil Arab looks like.
Under the rules of the great security officer Gebirg who merely searches bearded Arabs in long white clothes 9/11 would not have been prevented.

 

[137th Gebirg]

Richard Reid's British, English mom and Jamaican dad, so while all the Arabs are being strip searched he's....?

And Tim McVeigh was, in fact, white. And all this proves is that there are always exceptions.

I have no interest in the perceived nobility of political correctness. If that makes me a racist, then so be it. You all have made your own judgments in that regard and that's fine. But as long as a single one of you condone or defend the current actions of how TSA conducts its operations, it will only be a matter of time before you experience the same things, as they will continue and grow to the point of absurdity, that even a blind man can see.

So fine. Give up your freedoms so that a select few may feel unoffended. At least you will know deep in your hearts that you did your part for the greater good.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

My point was, racial profiling IS going on - it's just that TSA was going out of their way to search everyone EXCEPT Arabs.

Except that's not true. Quite the opposite. There have been numerous stories of people being searched or pulled off flights for "flying while Arab" or just being mistaken for being Arab.

Let's not even take the clothing issue into consideration.

Good, because you don't tend to play up to people's assumptions about how a terrorist would dress when you want to actually pull off a terrorist attack. The 9/11 hijackers were all wearing western business casual attire.

Let's simply look at where the passport is from and the destination of the individual.

You mean like this?

Q: What additional security measures are being taken for international flights to U.S. destinations?

A: On January 3, 2010, the Transportation Security Administration issued a new security directive to all U.S. and international air carriers with inbound flights to the U.S. effective January 4, 2010. The new directive includes long-term, sustainable security measures developed in consultation with law enforcement officials and our domestic and international partners.

TSA is mandating that every individual flying into the U.S. from anywhere in the world who holds a passport issued by or is traveling from or through nations that are state sponsors of terrorism or other countries of interest will be required to go through enhanced screening. TSA directed the increase use of enhanced screening technologies and mandates threat-based and random screening for majority passengers on U.S. bound international flights.

http://www.tsa.gov/press/happenings/010310_statement.shtm

No, I have no written proof that this is the policy. All I know is what I have seen.

You mean, what you have seen as filtered through the lens of your own extreme ignorance and intolerant preconceptions on the subject?

 

[Gov Kodos]

Richard Reid's British, English mom and Jamaican dad, so while all the Arabs are being strip searched he's....?

And Tim McVeigh was, in fact, white. And all this proves is that there are always exceptions.

I have no interest in the perceived nobility of political correctness. If that makes me a racist, then so be it. You all have made your own judgments in that regard and that's fine. But as long as a single one of you condone or defend the current actions of how TSA conducts its operations, it will only be a matter of time before you experience the same things, as they will continue and grow to the point of absurdity, that even a blind man can see.

So fine. Give up your freedoms so that a select few may feel unoffended. At least you will know deep in your hearts that you did your part for the greater good.

So, white folk aren't disposed to terrorism?

 

[Pingfah]

Actually, no. I take issue with the fact that they go out of their way to search anyone EXCEPT those of the Arabic/Persian persuasion. Yep! I said it! And I've seen it happen. 80 year-old women, children - white, black, hispanic - whatever - being pulled for searching. All while the Arab with the 3-foot long beard, wearing a hijab, his wife (or wives) decked out head-to-toe in her burqa and brood of 7 rowdy kids being allowed to walk through the line unquestioned. Yeah. Makes a lot of really good sense.

Do you have evidence that they are deliberately ignoring muslims, or is that just an assumption based on your personal experience of American airports?

You having seen it happen a few times is not evidence of anything, since not all muslims would be searched in any case.

Very true - I only have my experiences to draw on. I am not a TSA employee, nor am I privy to any internal memos that would officially substantiate such a policy. If there were, do you really think they would ever see the light of day? Oh, well. Enjoy your flight. Glad you all feel so safe now.

I'm not dismissing the possibility, but you have not provided anything that could be considered reliable evidence. Instead you have begged the question over and over again, and then criticised anybody who doesn't blindly accept your assertions as fact.

I have been on a lot of transatlantic flights, and I have not observed the same behaviour, what makes your personal experience more relevant than mine?

 

[137th Gebirg]

You mean, what you have seen as filtered through the lens of your own extreme ignorance and intolerant preconceptions on the subject?

Ah, yes. Intolerance. That old chestnut. This is getting fun now. Accusations of intolerance are quite frequently used by those who disagree with the point of view of another - quite intolerantly themselves and, in doing so, automagically placing themselves on the moral high-ground. It's good that you have so many like-minded sycophants here to support your non-arguments.

 

[Robert Maxwell]

Really? Your argument is hyperbole and exaggeration? Seriously though, shouldn't they at least try?

Locutus already showed that the TSA has a sensible policy in place that still doesn't involve racial profiling--just looking out for people coming in from countries known to sponsor terrorism. This makes it harder for terrorists since they'll have to send attackers through other countries, and logistically complicate their operations.

You have no room to talk about hyperbole and exaggeration given that you presented a total stereotype of Muslims and whined about how they aren't being screened.

Given that you have no rational basis for your position that we should single Muslims (or anyone who looks "too Muslimy") out for additional screening, what conclusion is anyone left to draw besides you being either ignorant or bigoted?

 

[horatio83]

You mean, what you have seen as filtered through the lens of your own extreme ignorance and intolerant preconceptions on the subject?

Ah, yes. Intolerance. That old chestnut. This is getting fun now. Accusations of intolerance are quite frequently used by those who disagree with the point of view of another - quite intolerantly themselves and, in doing so, automagically placing themselves on the moral high-ground. It's good that you have so many like-minded sycophants here to support your non-arguments.

Ah, the old "people who do not tolerate intolerance are intolerant themselves" argument. The last straw bigots try to grab.
But, guess what, there is some grain of truth in it. I am indeed intolerant, I do not tolerate racism:

And Tim McVeigh was, in fact, white. And all this proves is that there are always exceptions.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

You mean, what you have seen as filtered through the lens of your own extreme ignorance and intolerant preconceptions on the subject?

Ah, yes. Intolerance. That old chestnut. This is getting fun now. Accusations of intolerance are quite frequently used by those who disagree with the point of view of another - quite intolerantly themselves and, in doing so, automagically placing themselves on the moral high-ground. It's good that you have so many like-minded sycophants here to support your non-arguments.

My "non-arguments" can all be sourced to actual incidents, and I provided a link to back up my assertions. You have done none of this, and have relied solely on hyperbole, unreliable personal anecdotes, and gross ignorance of the customs of Arabs and TSA policy (which BTW, when it comes to TSA policy in general, no one is really happy about their security theater for various reasons and would have easily found common ground with you had you done a bit of research and not come off like a whining child); not to mention Godwinning in the first post. So, take your pity party bullshit elsewhere. I'm not in the fucking mood for your nonsense again.

 

[137th Gebirg]

Given that you have no rational basis for your position that we should single Muslims (or anyone who looks "too Muslimy") out for additional screening, what conclusion is anyone left to draw besides you being either ignorant or bigoted?

Because without the freedoms that have been eroded and stolen from us since 9/11, because of the terrorists, because of TSA and the vile creation that is the Patriot Act, and all the rest that has happened since then, it doesn't matter if you think I'm ignorant or not. It really doesn't. And it matters less and less each day these things continue.

Of course there will be public announcements on TSA policy and how people or searched. Of course they will be dressed up in all the pageantry that befits a high-paid PR wordsmith. Do you really expect me to believe that you blindly accept everything they tell you? Do you really expect me to believe that things aren't different behind closed doors?

Please. Who really is the ignorant one here?

So, take your pity party bullshit elsewhere. I'm not in the fucking mood for your nonsense again.

Hmm. Strike a nerve, did I? That's not very tolerant of you.