SFA: The Assassination Game by Alan Gratz Review Thread (Spoilers!)
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Re: SFA: The Assassination Game by Alan Gratz Review Thread (Spoilers!
Seriously? The cop was an alien? Or was he simply a human wearing some sort of armor, like current day riot police do? Which is more likely?
The thing about the shot of San Francisco is that it's a digital image, not a location shot. Everything in that picture is there because somebody put it ehre. The sky is that color because somebody decided it was that overcast and grey. We're not talking about partly cloudy with sunny breaks. It's totally grey and overcast. Why? Could it be that they were trying to evoke a feeling? Could it possibly be that the choice of atmospherics was made for a reason?
Kirk & Spock are both out of place on their planets. Spock because of Vulcans cultural bias and Kirk because he's capable of being more he can be on Earth. Starfleet lets them both get away from what is a bad environment for them. For Spock, the oppression is shown by the people. For Kirk, it's the environment that's oppressive.
If the environment of Earth is so good why is Kirk an overage juvenile delinquent? Why have the social services of the time not helped him? Why is it that the only thing that seems to do him any good is the thing that will take him away from Earth?
Seriously? The cop was an alien? Or was he simply a human wearing some sort of armor, like current day riot police do? Which is more likely?
The thing about the shot of San Francisco is that it's a digital image, not a location shot. Everything in that picture is there because somebody put it ehre. The sky is that color because somebody decided it was that overcast and grey. We're not talking about partly cloudy with sunny breaks. It's totally grey and overcast. Why? Could it be that they were trying to evoke a feeling? Could it possibly be that the choice of atmospherics was made for a reason?
Kirk & Spock are both out of place on their planets. Spock because of Vulcans cultural bias and Kirk because he's capable of being more he can be on Earth. Starfleet lets them both get away from what is a bad environment for them. For Spock, the oppression is shown by the people. For Kirk, it's the environment that's oppressive.
If the environment of Earth is so good why is Kirk an overage juvenile delinquent? Why have the social services of the time not helped him? Why is it that the only thing that seems to do him any good is the thing that will take him away from Earth?
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Re: SFA: The Assassination Game by Alan Gratz Review Thread (Spoilers!
Well, Star Trek: First Contact and Star Trek: Enterprise already established that humanity has united under a single United Earth government and ended war, poverty, disease, major crime, and oppression long before the Narada's arrival in 2233.
And even present-day police, with their penchants for brutality, don't tend to wear riot gear while patrolling semi-rural Iowa.
So, yeah, I think it's far more likely that the police officer seen in ST09's 2240s sequences was a non-Human.
Sure. And maybe it was supposed to be foreshadowing for the danger that the Narada's attack on Vulcan represented. Maybe it was supposed to just make us empathize with Kirk's pain as he suffers through the illness McCoy gave him to smuggle him aboard. Or maybe it's just supposed to make us tense so that we'll release that tension when we see the beautiful starship Enterprise.
Or, hell, maybe Abrams just decided to subvert the rather ridiculous idea that a positive future means the weather is never mildly unpleasant.
But Kirk isn't oppressed. I mean, seriously -- he goes from some very self-destructive behavior to becoming the captain of a huge starship right out of the Academy, and he's let into the Academy no questions asked. There is no indication whatsoever that any of his opportunities in life are constrained by anything other than his own behavior.
Earth in ST09 is only "oppressive" insofar as it's not the right kind of life for a man with Kirk's desires and capabilities, in the same sense that even the most tolerant and accepting of small towns is "oppressive" for someone who prefers the hustle and bustle of a large city. It's not oppressive in any meaningful sense of the term, it's just not the right environment for someone with Kirk's aptitudes. Someone else may find life in Starfleet far more "oppressive" than Kirk does, and may well crave life back in Riverside, Iowa.
1. "Overage juvenile delinquent" is a self-contradictory term. He was a juvenile delinquent when he stole his step-father's car, and Captain Pike referred to him as the only "genius-level repeat offender in the Midwest." We do not know if he engaged in any criminal activity upon adulthood -- "repeat offender" may refer to his juvenile record; all we know is that he had anger issues and got into a bar fight.
2. This question is predicated upon the false premise that low-level crime would only ever occur as a consequence of oppressive political or economic conditions. ST09 was very clear that Kirk was a self-destructive person prior to joining Starfleet in 2255 because of his rage over his father's loss (and, arguably, because of the emotionally abusive behavior of his step-father when he mother was off-planet, if the car theft sequence was an indicator of his step-father's typical behavior).
We have no evidence that the social services did not help him. All we know is that he still had anger issues when he was 22 and got into a bar fight.
If the sequence of him staring at the salt-shaker replica of the U.S.S. Kelvin is any indication, it's because it was his way of finally reconciling himself with his father's legacy, and finally finding a position that was appropriate for his aptitudes.
Well, Star Trek: First Contact and Star Trek: Enterprise already established that humanity has united under a single United Earth government and ended war, poverty, disease, major crime, and oppression long before the Narada's arrival in 2233.
And even present-day police, with their penchants for brutality, don't tend to wear riot gear while patrolling semi-rural Iowa.
So, yeah, I think it's far more likely that the police officer seen in ST09's 2240s sequences was a non-Human.
Sure. And maybe it was supposed to be foreshadowing for the danger that the Narada's attack on Vulcan represented. Maybe it was supposed to just make us empathize with Kirk's pain as he suffers through the illness McCoy gave him to smuggle him aboard. Or maybe it's just supposed to make us tense so that we'll release that tension when we see the beautiful starship Enterprise.
Or, hell, maybe Abrams just decided to subvert the rather ridiculous idea that a positive future means the weather is never mildly unpleasant.
But Kirk isn't oppressed. I mean, seriously -- he goes from some very self-destructive behavior to becoming the captain of a huge starship right out of the Academy, and he's let into the Academy no questions asked. There is no indication whatsoever that any of his opportunities in life are constrained by anything other than his own behavior.
Earth in ST09 is only "oppressive" insofar as it's not the right kind of life for a man with Kirk's desires and capabilities, in the same sense that even the most tolerant and accepting of small towns is "oppressive" for someone who prefers the hustle and bustle of a large city. It's not oppressive in any meaningful sense of the term, it's just not the right environment for someone with Kirk's aptitudes. Someone else may find life in Starfleet far more "oppressive" than Kirk does, and may well crave life back in Riverside, Iowa.
1. "Overage juvenile delinquent" is a self-contradictory term. He was a juvenile delinquent when he stole his step-father's car, and Captain Pike referred to him as the only "genius-level repeat offender in the Midwest." We do not know if he engaged in any criminal activity upon adulthood -- "repeat offender" may refer to his juvenile record; all we know is that he had anger issues and got into a bar fight.
2. This question is predicated upon the false premise that low-level crime would only ever occur as a consequence of oppressive political or economic conditions. ST09 was very clear that Kirk was a self-destructive person prior to joining Starfleet in 2255 because of his rage over his father's loss (and, arguably, because of the emotionally abusive behavior of his step-father when he mother was off-planet, if the car theft sequence was an indicator of his step-father's typical behavior).
We have no evidence that the social services did not help him. All we know is that he still had anger issues when he was 22 and got into a bar fight.
If the sequence of him staring at the salt-shaker replica of the U.S.S. Kelvin is any indication, it's because it was his way of finally reconciling himself with his father's legacy, and finally finding a position that was appropriate for his aptitudes.
Re: SFA: The Assassination Game by Alan Gratz Review Thread (Spoilers!
The only times Kirk spoke of his father or the Kelvin, even tangently, was 1) when he told Pike about the lightning storm in space and 2) a very brief mention with Spock on Delta Vega. If he had issues over his father's death we only know because we saw his father die and make an assumption that is why he's in so much trouble. If it weren't for backstage info we wouldn't even know that the voice he heard was his step-father. Make all the assumptions that you like but nothing is laid out by anyone that that is the reason for his anger. We don't even see his mother after she pops him out. For all we know she's hardly around and he feels abandoned by the only parent he's ever known. His father may just be a name and a picture on the mantle to him. For all we know the only reason he even wondered if he lived in the prime universe is to see how different the two universe were.
The only times Kirk spoke of his father or the Kelvin, even tangently, was 1) when he told Pike about the lightning storm in space and 2) a very brief mention with Spock on Delta Vega. If he had issues over his father's death we only know because we saw his father die and make an assumption that is why he's in so much trouble. If it weren't for backstage info we wouldn't even know that the voice he heard was his step-father. Make all the assumptions that you like but nothing is laid out by anyone that that is the reason for his anger. We don't even see his mother after she pops him out. For all we know she's hardly around and he feels abandoned by the only parent he's ever known. His father may just be a name and a picture on the mantle to him. For all we know the only reason he even wondered if he lived in the prime universe is to see how different the two universe were.
Re: SFA: The Assassination Game by Alan Gratz Review Thread (Spoilers!
Have you ever been to San Fransisco before? I've been there a dozen times at least visting my grandfather and it's not unusual for it to be overcast and gray. Most of the time when I was there I barely saw the sun most of the day.
Have you ever been to San Fransisco before? I've been there a dozen times at least visting my grandfather and it's not unusual for it to be overcast and gray. Most of the time when I was there I barely saw the sun most of the day.
Re: SFA: The Assassination Game by Alan Gratz Review Thread (Spoilers!
True, it is left to the viewer to determine Kirk's motivations based upon the clues; it is not spelled out for us.
But between the fact that Child!Alt!Kirk is a juvenile delinquent whereas Prime!Kirk so far as we know never was; the fact that Pike specifically invokes his father's memory when talking about greatness and appealing to Kirk's sense that he's meant for something better than he's been living so far; the fact that Kirk stares at the Kelvin salt-shaker at the Riverside Bar; the fact that it is his "wicked stepfather" who verbally abuses him and threatens physical abuse in his mother's absence; and the fact that Kirk asks Prime!Spock what became of his father's Prime Universe counterpart; and the fact that Kirk's and Spock's narratives compliment one-another's (Kirk loses father at a young age and must learn to master his anger; Spock loses his mother as an adult and learns to embrace his emotions) -- all of it taken together seems to establish that his father's death and legacy are a major psychological issue for young Kirk.
Whether or not the Angry Shouty Nokia Man is specifically his step-father -- as opposed to an uncle, or a neighbor, or a friend of his mother's, or what-have-you -- is, I would argue, somewhat less important than the psychological role he plays: He is the man who takes care of Kirk when his mother is off-planet, and he clearly has anger management issues himself and is emotionally abusive -- things which would never have happened to young Kirk had his father survived. Whatever his specific role, he's always going to be the replacement male authority figure who is inferior to Kirk's father.
That's called an "interpretation," not an "assumption." It's a standard practice when engaging with literature, film, or television. Not everything that is important to the text is explicitly spelled out.
True, it is left to the viewer to determine Kirk's motivations based upon the clues; it is not spelled out for us.
But between the fact that Child!Alt!Kirk is a juvenile delinquent whereas Prime!Kirk so far as we know never was; the fact that Pike specifically invokes his father's memory when talking about greatness and appealing to Kirk's sense that he's meant for something better than he's been living so far; the fact that Kirk stares at the Kelvin salt-shaker at the Riverside Bar; the fact that it is his "wicked stepfather" who verbally abuses him and threatens physical abuse in his mother's absence; and the fact that Kirk asks Prime!Spock what became of his father's Prime Universe counterpart; and the fact that Kirk's and Spock's narratives compliment one-another's (Kirk loses father at a young age and must learn to master his anger; Spock loses his mother as an adult and learns to embrace his emotions) -- all of it taken together seems to establish that his father's death and legacy are a major psychological issue for young Kirk.
Whether or not the Angry Shouty Nokia Man is specifically his step-father -- as opposed to an uncle, or a neighbor, or a friend of his mother's, or what-have-you -- is, I would argue, somewhat less important than the psychological role he plays: He is the man who takes care of Kirk when his mother is off-planet, and he clearly has anger management issues himself and is emotionally abusive -- things which would never have happened to young Kirk had his father survived. Whatever his specific role, he's always going to be the replacement male authority figure who is inferior to Kirk's father.
That's called an "interpretation," not an "assumption." It's a standard practice when engaging with literature, film, or television. Not everything that is important to the text is explicitly spelled out.
Re: SFA: The Assassination Game by Alan Gratz Review Thread (Spoilers!
Yup, been to San Francisco many, many times. Yes, it can often be overcast and gloomy. However, in the movie when we see SF Academy it's bright and sunny and a pleasant place to be. When we see the city it's grey and overcast and a depressing gloom to it. It's showing us that Starfleet is the better place to be. There's green grass and bright colors and sun and lots of people. When we see the city it grey and foreboding an, as it's only seen from a distance, devoid of people or trees. I'm not saying that San Francisco is ALWAYS like that. However, in the context of the movie it's showing us that the Academy, and by extension Starfleet, is a better place to be.
Getting back onto the YA topic, let's not forget that the city is said to be dangerous, especially at night with various gangs roaming the street. One of them almost raped Kirk's friend.
A lot of things could have changed since the Kevlin was lost. For all we know the Federation used it as an excuse to go to war with the Romulans and Earth's economy has taken a major hit. Much like how the Iraq and Afghanistan wars lowered the standards for enlistment in the US armed forces, allowing people with criminal records and racist backgrounds to join, perhaps Starfleet is desperate for personnel. Pike seemed awfully eager for a bar fighting, multiple offender to join up. Maybe he's looking for people with a chip on their shoulder.
Yup, been to San Francisco many, many times. Yes, it can often be overcast and gloomy. However, in the movie when we see SF Academy it's bright and sunny and a pleasant place to be. When we see the city it's grey and overcast and a depressing gloom to it. It's showing us that Starfleet is the better place to be. There's green grass and bright colors and sun and lots of people. When we see the city it grey and foreboding an, as it's only seen from a distance, devoid of people or trees. I'm not saying that San Francisco is ALWAYS like that. However, in the context of the movie it's showing us that the Academy, and by extension Starfleet, is a better place to be.
Getting back onto the YA topic, let's not forget that the city is said to be dangerous, especially at night with various gangs roaming the street. One of them almost raped Kirk's friend.
A lot of things could have changed since the Kevlin was lost. For all we know the Federation used it as an excuse to go to war with the Romulans and Earth's economy has taken a major hit. Much like how the Iraq and Afghanistan wars lowered the standards for enlistment in the US armed forces, allowing people with criminal records and racist backgrounds to join, perhaps Starfleet is desperate for personnel. Pike seemed awfully eager for a bar fighting, multiple offender to join up. Maybe he's looking for people with a chip on their shoulder.
Re: SFA: The Assassination Game by Alan Gratz Review Thread (Spoilers!
So, the step-father or uncle or neighbor shouldn't get angry when someone steals a car? Should he have said "Jim, I feel like you're upset about something. Why don't you come back ehre and let's talk about your feelings?". Perhaps he is Kirk's uncle, maybe his mother's brother who keeps getting Jim dropped in his lap every time his mother disappears for weeks on end. If someone left me with a kid who, despite my best efforts, stole my car and dropped it into a quarry, I'd be pretty peeved too.
Seeing as his father is dead and his mother is absent it would appear that little JTK is looking for attention, good or bad. He went off with Pike just because 1) He payed attention to him and 2) he challenged him.
As for the salt shaker, imagine that your family had been killed in the WTC and you were in a drive bar and saw salt and pepper shakers shaped like the twin towers. I'd look at them a little strangely too.
So, the step-father or uncle or neighbor shouldn't get angry when someone steals a car? Should he have said "Jim, I feel like you're upset about something. Why don't you come back ehre and let's talk about your feelings?". Perhaps he is Kirk's uncle, maybe his mother's brother who keeps getting Jim dropped in his lap every time his mother disappears for weeks on end. If someone left me with a kid who, despite my best efforts, stole my car and dropped it into a quarry, I'd be pretty peeved too.
Seeing as his father is dead and his mother is absent it would appear that little JTK is looking for attention, good or bad. He went off with Pike just because 1) He payed attention to him and 2) he challenged him.
As for the salt shaker, imagine that your family had been killed in the WTC and you were in a drive bar and saw salt and pepper shakers shaped like the twin towers. I'd look at them a little strangely too.
Re: SFA: The Assassination Game by Alan Gratz Review Thread (Spoilers!
I didn't really see it that way, it just looked like you're typical futuristic city, without really seeing it being presented positively or negatively.
Re: SFA: The Assassination Game by Alan Gratz Review Thread (Spoilers!
I think you're overlooking the context. That shot of the San Francisco skyline in gloomy, overcast weather comes during the part of the film where the cadets are reporting to their ships to respond to the distress call from Vulcan. It's probably meant to convey a sense of foreboding about the danger that lies ahead for the characters as they leave Earth, not to suggest anything about Earth itself. Or it might be that the shot was designed to be bland and gray so that the immediately following sequence, our first look at the Enterprise in space, would be more visually impressive by contrast.
After all, the earlier shots of the city skyline in the background at the Academy quad were much more sunlit and inviting. So it doesn't make sense to assume the mood suggested by the overcast shots was meant to be tied to the place itself rather than to the specific moment when it came in the film.
I think you're overlooking the context. That shot of the San Francisco skyline in gloomy, overcast weather comes during the part of the film where the cadets are reporting to their ships to respond to the distress call from Vulcan. It's probably meant to convey a sense of foreboding about the danger that lies ahead for the characters as they leave Earth, not to suggest anything about Earth itself. Or it might be that the shot was designed to be bland and gray so that the immediately following sequence, our first look at the Enterprise in space, would be more visually impressive by contrast.
After all, the earlier shots of the city skyline in the background at the Academy quad were much more sunlit and inviting. So it doesn't make sense to assume the mood suggested by the overcast shots was meant to be tied to the place itself rather than to the specific moment when it came in the film.
Re: SFA: The Assassination Game by Alan Gratz Review Thread (Spoilers!
Bolding mine.
Nope, not overlooking that. Yours is, of course, one interpretation, perhaps even the filmmakers intent. That doesn't distract from the overall gloominess and shabbiness and general unattractiveness of Earth other than the Academy. The point is that when the city is seen as bright and sunlit it's seen from the Academy grounds. After all you would hardly expect the skys to be clear over the Presidio and downtown to be overcast. Get off the grounds though and it's gloomy. Starfleet is the bright spot on Earth, metaphorically speaking but shown via the weather.
Bolding mine.
Nope, not overlooking that. Yours is, of course, one interpretation, perhaps even the filmmakers intent. That doesn't distract from the overall gloominess and shabbiness and general unattractiveness of Earth other than the Academy. The point is that when the city is seen as bright and sunlit it's seen from the Academy grounds. After all you would hardly expect the skys to be clear over the Presidio and downtown to be overcast. Get off the grounds though and it's gloomy. Starfleet is the bright spot on Earth, metaphorically speaking but shown via the weather.
Re: SFA: The Assassination Game by Alan Gratz Review Thread (Spoilers!
Thanks for paying us a visit over here!
The chapter 1 excerpt was a pretty fun read. I've been having a bit of a guilty pleasure YA thing going on this year, reading through the Hunger Games and Bacigalupi's Ship Breaker alongside the Vanguard series and other books; I think I'll continue that thread by picking up this one.
Thanks for paying us a visit over here!
The chapter 1 excerpt was a pretty fun read. I've been having a bit of a guilty pleasure YA thing going on this year, reading through the Hunger Games and Bacigalupi's Ship Breaker alongside the Vanguard series and other books; I think I'll continue that thread by picking up this one.
Re: SFA: The Assassination Game by Alan Gratz Review Thread (Spoilers!
I don't know, it really doesn't look that gloomy or unpleasant to me. It just looks like your average futuristic city. (The three pictures in the top row are the ones of the city.)
Re: SFA: The Assassination Game by Alan Gratz Review Thread (Spoilers!
^ Doesn't really look gloomy and unpleasant to me, either, at least not in the way that's being insinuated here. I mean, it certainly looks to be a gloomy and unpleasant day, but there are none of the telltale visual clues that would make it out to be a generally gloomy and unpleasant place. The structure and density of those high-rises doesn't have any of the caked-on urbanity of a Blade Runner, say, nor does the architecture feel threatening or oppressive to me. And there's enough vegetation on display that no overt suggestion of a spent environment enters my mind, at least not any more so than with today's cityscapes.
^ Doesn't really look gloomy and unpleasant to me, either, at least not in the way that's being insinuated here. I mean, it certainly looks to be a gloomy and unpleasant day, but there are none of the telltale visual clues that would make it out to be a generally gloomy and unpleasant place. The structure and density of those high-rises doesn't have any of the caked-on urbanity of a Blade Runner, say, nor does the architecture feel threatening or oppressive to me. And there's enough vegetation on display that no overt suggestion of a spent environment enters my mind, at least not any more so than with today's cityscapes.
Re: SFA: The Assassination Game by Alan Gratz Review Thread (Spoilers!
Well I guess the rape gang was just a historical recreation society and Kirk lied about saving his friend just so he could get her to bed. And they're the only one. The reports of other dangerous gangs is just the same small group in different costumes playing out a revival of Wet Side Story.
Yeah, that's the ticket. Earth is a paradise after all. The RoboCop just had a malfunctioning coice unit and he lost his human mask in the chase. You're right, it all fits.
Well I guess the rape gang was just a historical recreation society and Kirk lied about saving his friend just so he could get her to bed. And they're the only one. The reports of other dangerous gangs is just the same small group in different costumes playing out a revival of Wet Side Story.
Yeah, that's the ticket. Earth is a paradise after all. The RoboCop just had a malfunctioning coice unit and he lost his human mask in the chase. You're right, it all fits.
Re: SFA: The Assassination Game by Alan Gratz Review Thread (Spoilers!
Oh, c'mon. My point really is, this 22nd century Earth is supposed to be transitory between our time and, say, what we end up with during Picard's and Sisko's time. Given there's a whole third world war in there, I'd say 'Frisco looks alright, and a lone hard-ass cop (who's dealing with an unruly child, mind you) doesn't really make for systematic oppression, nor does some level of crime, for that matter. I guess it depends on whether you view present-day SF as a "place to get away from", too
.
So, Earth may not be paradise just yet, but it should be on its way to recovery at least, and humanity should have found its will to hang on and keep pushing it toward "paradise".
Oh, c'mon. My point really is, this 22nd century Earth is supposed to be transitory between our time and, say, what we end up with during Picard's and Sisko's time. Given there's a whole third world war in there, I'd say 'Frisco looks alright, and a lone hard-ass cop (who's dealing with an unruly child, mind you) doesn't really make for systematic oppression, nor does some level of crime, for that matter. I guess it depends on whether you view present-day SF as a "place to get away from", too
.So, Earth may not be paradise just yet, but it should be on its way to recovery at least, and humanity should have found its will to hang on and keep pushing it toward "paradise".
Re: SFA: The Assassination Game by Alan Gratz Review Thread (Spoilers!
^Yeah, the idea of the motorcycle cop being some kind of symbol of oppression is totally bizarre. He pulled over an 11-year-old kid who was operating a stolen (and pollution-generating) antique vehicle at dangerous speeds and who crashed it into a quarry. Of course he's going to be stern about that. Kirk was unambiguously in the wrong there. And all the cop actually did was stand there and ask what his name was -- I have no idea how you can read anything dystopian into that.
I'll grant that that one YA book's mention of gangs in San Francisco was unexpected, but it's not like TOS showed us a perfect, utopian 23rd century; they still had racism (Lt. Stiles), crime, drugs, and prostitution (Harry Mudd), murder (Lenore Karidian, Janice Lester), attempted murder (Ben Finney, Larry Marvick), mass murder (Kodos, Ron Tracey), not to mention however you care to define the crimes of John Gill and R. M. Merik. The whole "Earth = paradise" idea didn't begin to germinate until ST:TMP and didn't reach full fruition until TNG. So if crimes like that were still being committed by humans in the mid-23rd century in the Prime universe, it doesn't seem that unlikely that there could've still been gangs and rapists as well.
^Yeah, the idea of the motorcycle cop being some kind of symbol of oppression is totally bizarre. He pulled over an 11-year-old kid who was operating a stolen (and pollution-generating) antique vehicle at dangerous speeds and who crashed it into a quarry. Of course he's going to be stern about that. Kirk was unambiguously in the wrong there. And all the cop actually did was stand there and ask what his name was -- I have no idea how you can read anything dystopian into that.
I'll grant that that one YA book's mention of gangs in San Francisco was unexpected, but it's not like TOS showed us a perfect, utopian 23rd century; they still had racism (Lt. Stiles), crime, drugs, and prostitution (Harry Mudd), murder (Lenore Karidian, Janice Lester), attempted murder (Ben Finney, Larry Marvick), mass murder (Kodos, Ron Tracey), not to mention however you care to define the crimes of John Gill and R. M. Merik. The whole "Earth = paradise" idea didn't begin to germinate until ST:TMP and didn't reach full fruition until TNG. So if crimes like that were still being committed by humans in the mid-23rd century in the Prime universe, it doesn't seem that unlikely that there could've still been gangs and rapists as well.
Re: SFA: The Assassination Game by Alan Gratz Review Thread (Spoilers!
Hold on, now. You're moving the goalposts here.
You first attempted to justify the idea of the YA novels doing things like showing foreign terrorists or having street gangs by arguing that the film itself depicts Earth as an oppressive place. Two of the things you cited for that argument were worn paint and bad weather.
Other posters have simply argued that worn paint and bad weather is nothing but worn paint and bad weather.
But now, instead of focusing on whether or not the film portrays Earth as oppressive, you're jumping back to an a priori assumption that Earth is an oppressive environment and using non-canonical evidence to justify it -- the same non-canonical evidence you first attempted to justify by citing your interpretation of sequences from the film.
This is not how logical argumentation works. You don't cite your thesis to justify the evidence; you cite your evidence to justify the thesis.
I'm sorry, but what exactly was bad or oppressive about the police officer and/or his actions in the film? Did he use excessive force? Did he engage in racial/ethnic/species profiling? Did he subject Kirk to an unreasonable search and seizure without probable cause?
What, exactly, was so awful about that police officer?
I completely agree! Except that I feel compelled to point out that ST09 and its YA novels take place in the 23rd Century, not the 22nd -- two hundred years after World War III.
It doesn't look gloomy and unpleasant to you? Where do you live, Seattle?
Find a color in it that isn't a shade of grey.
^ Doesn't really look gloomy and unpleasant to me, either, at least not in the way that's being insinuated here. I mean, it certainly looks to be a gloomy and unpleasant day, but there are none of the telltale visual clues that would make it out to be a generally gloomy and unpleasant place. The structure and density of those high-rises doesn't have any of the caked-on urbanity of a Blade Runner, say, nor does the architecture feel threatening or oppressive to me. And there's enough vegetation on display that no overt suggestion of a spent environment enters my mind, at least not any more so than with today's cityscapes.
Well I guess the rape gang was just a historical recreation society and Kirk lied about saving his friend just so he could get her to bed.
Hold on, now. You're moving the goalposts here.
You first attempted to justify the idea of the YA novels doing things like showing foreign terrorists or having street gangs by arguing that the film itself depicts Earth as an oppressive place. Two of the things you cited for that argument were worn paint and bad weather.
Other posters have simply argued that worn paint and bad weather is nothing but worn paint and bad weather.
But now, instead of focusing on whether or not the film portrays Earth as oppressive, you're jumping back to an a priori assumption that Earth is an oppressive environment and using non-canonical evidence to justify it -- the same non-canonical evidence you first attempted to justify by citing your interpretation of sequences from the film.
This is not how logical argumentation works. You don't cite your thesis to justify the evidence; you cite your evidence to justify the thesis.
I'm sorry, but what exactly was bad or oppressive about the police officer and/or his actions in the film? Did he use excessive force? Did he engage in racial/ethnic/species profiling? Did he subject Kirk to an unreasonable search and seizure without probable cause?
What, exactly, was so awful about that police officer?
I completely agree! Except that I feel compelled to point out that ST09 and its YA novels take place in the 23rd Century, not the 22nd -- two hundred years after World War III.
